The Corporate and Mixer Divide.
How can we incentivize it better?

Today we're looking to you, the players, to help us find out how we can help incentivize you to RP the divide between Corpies and Mixers more in your daily RolePlay. Preferably any ideas you have should not require the constant attention of GM's but should be something that benefits you and gives you the incentive to RP the divide between these two classes to the fullest.

"We are sorry to announce that (redacted topside station name) is undergoing temporary maintenence, our next stop will be (redacted mix-side station name)."

Be a shame if a corpie happened to be using that service to get home to Green for the evening...

(okay, probably not a great idea, but forcing spontaneous antagonistic contact somehow could be nice.)

Sorry, didn't realise we can't use pointy-brackets :P

https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/new-game-features/corporate-immigration-243/

A lotta mix turned corpies tend to lean towards the sympathetic towards mixers side and honestly, I'd prefer you to lob a couple frags off a skywalk and see how many of us trash golems you take out before the jakes politely ask you to stop discharging deadly explosives in the sky.

This is of course themely, as it is likely what The Law wants you to believe IC, even if more experienced Mixers know otherwise. Spreading that knowledge or opportunities around to budding rabble-rousers somehow might make things more exciting for all parties involved rather than the usual mundane shit-talking.

I'd start with internal HR memos about cracking down on employees consorting with mixers. Make it a witch hunt, offer bonuses or promotions for snitching on/framing your co-workers and keeping your own image clean. A lot of what should motivate a low-level corpie is fear of having to go back to the Mix life.

if youre openly consorting with the other side as a corpie, or you get yourself caught, that should come with consequences like reprimanding or getting fired, and like mentioned above, maybe more snitching needs to be encouraged among corpies just to make sure the rp correctly figures in the amount of risk that's being taken

im not really sure what the solution is for mixers who are caught colluding with corpies. most mixers who do so are going to be on the high end in terms of gear and UE and you can get away with a lot if you have that and you're not scared to shed a little blood

As mentioned in the other thread, Class Wars. Bring it back. Put a PC in that role (more jobs) Have weekly or biweekly shows every month. Drive the point home into their heads until a vein is going to burst goddamnit. Corpies VS. Mixers. Drill it into them and let Class Wars be the corps boot camp and rite of passage, guiding the new turncoats ICly by referencing recent events, and keeping those sitting on a throne from the sweat and blood of others in check at the reality of things.

Oh, you're a corporate TV Personality or something being cutesy on Pub SIC with Mixers to appeal to them? Fucking your corps image up and encouraging other corpies to do the same with your sway? Better think hard if you want to keep that stuff you've built, because words and cries of sympathy won't get you far in the Mix when you eventually fall if you keep it up. You can handle hearings ICly in a unique case by case basis. Disciplinary action, beatings, blackmailing, set up scenarios that ensures they stay in line, because stepping out means this incriminating undeniable evidence pieced against you by your corp will have you turning from failed corpie to the Mixers plaything bound to die and burn out or hiding in exile for months from EVERYONE for wasting your corps resources and betraying them. Very themely. Imprisonment. Torture. Behavior reprogramming. Literally anything cyberpunk that makes people think twice. Public examples of employees and working to rebuild their image amongst their chums while Mixers laugh their asses off, making the target example character resent Mixers.

As for Mixers, expanding on Grey0's idea, but more simplified. This should be done through RP, not gamey behavior that encourages the divide like discounts. Public image. Gangers hate you (There's a system in place for this) if they see you consorting openly on public SIC with Corpies. Ranging from snide remarks, random beatdowns, muggings, killings on sight etc. Depending on the severity of the breaches of the theme and divide and how often it's happening. Mix establishments not hiring you. Places like bars banning you or throwing you out. All this in the name of being a spineless, sniveling little rat turncoat in the eyes of REAL Mixers. There's lots that can be done and admins can give small touches IC and utilize these examples to let it snowball amongst the playerbase, by then players would be forced to react, have a side on the fence, and respond. Characters would mirror the behavior and mayhem unfolding in the name of the divide after deciding which side of the fence they're on, or get consumed by the Mix for being a corpie lover kiss ass.

I did witness staff doing something recently to emphasis the divide and hate and it was veeery IC and amazing. Not knowing when your ego is going to blow up in your face at the hands of a offended, angry Mixer. Characters did react ICly to it too, which is what I'm talking about. They took sides and expressed it. All I'm going to say is the characters were askink for it.

A quote from the Assassins Creed Syndicate, a game whose theme was dominated by class divide (albeit Victorian class divide), comes to mind here. "When you steal from the rich it’s criminal. But stealing from the poor, that’s capitalism." - Jacob Frye - A little more leeway for corpses to overtly use and abuse mixers for profit without Judgement could go a long way here in my opinion. There are so many plot loops that could be intergrated into player jobs here with a little tweaking. These are just examples but I’m sure someone more creative than me could think up stuff that would work better:

--Viriisoma needs a product tested? Abduct a mixer.

--NLM ratings are low? Class Wars gets literal with heavily armed corporate goons killing a bunch of mixers during visits to the mix in “self-defence”.

--Medicine isn’t selling? Oops, a faulty batch of vaccine sent to the mix actually GAVE people Ebola but don’t worry, we have the cure at a “reasonable” price.

Besides giving corporate players a material way to gain from the mixes suffering (and therefore be more likely to play that theme) I feel having these kinds of plots integrated more freely into corporate work and happening more overtly (they may already be happening, hence I say more overt) would create more enmity from the mix by retaliation. Mixers would actually have reasons to be wary of interacting with corporate players who could choose to backstab them at any given moment and corporate players would have a good reason to view mixers as beneath them and potentially dangerous (because as a mixer I’d sure as hell want my own back from time to time). This would have the side benefit of giving corporate players more to do. I know I don’t have the full view but from an external viewpoint it doesn't look like there’s much going on up there.

I also think there's a lot of misunderstanding about what you can and can't do inside of the theme, especially Topside. Not sure that harshening things up will make players do anything but turtle up and be afraid to plot and 'break the rules' to get what they want or need.

What things could we add to the game that could achieve this objective?

For example, what would/could motivate a Mixer to hate corpies and at the same time benefit him from doing so?

I am going to build on what Grey0 suggested (basically a numerical faction system), because I also came up with a similar idea. Which I agree might not be best but goes into the scope of possible incentives and deterrents (And people are going to hate it, because nobody wants to lose stuff).

A Mixer could have 'Mix Street credit', and they could improve that by doing an X number of actions related to what the staff thinks its themely for a Mixer to do (kill corpies, do crimes, Defy the law, help gangs, etc).

Let’s say there would be some kind of automated system that keeps score of that and then you can also sporadically be awarded by GMs boosts (x2 points) or bonus points if they noticed that you are 'staying in character' and RPing that themely Mixer consistently or it could also be in reverse, you lose points or are given a debuff by doing actions that would be unthemly for a Mixer (Being spotted eating Sushi Topside, Obeying the Law, Running Boxes in Green, Helping the corporate factions, etc.)

Depending on your 'Street cred', certain 'standard' services or NPCs would be available or denied to you and if you have plenty of points, you'd get access to 'special' services and NPCs of the Mixer faction.

This would reward people who stay themely and hinder those who aren't. Your street cred isn't good enough? Can't join a gang, can't get a lease, can't enter X hangout or get access to X NPC (Ripper Doc, Gang Leader, whatever).

You have a legendary street cred like Seven Ecks? Mixers trust you, they want to help you, and they might even follow you. You maybe get free drinks, or discounts, access to special shops, or you can even recruit random generic Mixer NPCs to follow you and ordered them around, etc.

So basically you could earn cool stuff that is both awesome and themely in accord to your faction.

What about corpies? They get something similar, you are loyal you get access to Space, Aerodyns, Biomods, even MORE perks, etc. You are an exemplary corporate citizen? Then you get access to exclusive hangouts, items, even MORE RIDICULOUS perks, corpie personalities (Meet Chen Mayo or Juicy V) and maybe you even get to be a CEO for a bit, while your boss vacations in Jupiter.

So yeah, this would sort of force the players to work for what they want to have and invest in either side of the divide, you work for one and you lose face with the other.

Corpies would have to actually work for their careers, instead of being handed everything the second their work terminal says they are 'corporate' and get access to anything they can afford, which doesn't take much effort earn in my personal opinion.

A system like this one creates scenarios where money alone isn't good enough and you also need to have a reputation (based on IC actions and RP) too in order to back it up.

This would also generate 'faction pride', players who managed to get high enough in their factions REP hierarchy on either side would have certain renown based on their actions, RP and the exclusive goodies they gained and most likely would chastise or encourage members of the same faction to improve their REP.

No faction standing? Never heard of you, you aren't important enough, sorry. But you get to move around freely and with less scrutiny.

You have negative faction standing? Then you get drawbacks whenever interacting with your opposite faction and most likely will get threatened or even harmed if you make the trip to the other side of the pond.

Anyways, keep the ball rolling there are already some pretty good ideas in here.

Staff pay attention already to who's doing what and how they "really" act.

Just my two cents. Just because you don't SEE someone getting killed and shaken down for their first few months in the Mix doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

SO sorry I can't play the game as good as you. I'll envy from the shadows :)

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

Points based "mixer/corpus street cred systems" in my mind feel a little gamey but let's roll with the idea a little and see whether it's something that could work. What kind of actions would earn you points? How could something like that be automated? Bear in mind OP has requested solutions be light on gm attention so gm assigned points doesn't really fit with that requirement.

What did people think of my suggestions regarding intergrating more corpie-mixer abuse by default into certain job roles and again, is an incentive based on this something that could be automated?

I really liked BlazingCoconuts suggestion relating to drug trials on mixers and with the facilities in place feel that could be a really nice plot loop players can operate themselves. The doctor would be paid for administering the dose, the mixer for taking it but they could experience a bunch of randomised symptoms

While I know there isreason for corpies to get mixers to bring them stuff up from the mix it's not something I'm aware of happening on a large scale or regular basis. There's a damn good chance I'm just not seeing this happening (then carry on as you are!), or it could be that these things are happening one a small enough scale that reliable, discrete fixer-types get these jobs done under the radar, and nobody knows, nobody cares.

If these sort of interactions were made more common through either bumping up the pricing of basic necessities on topside levels or simple unavailability it should encourage corpies to start requesting stinky immy-clothed mixers to come and drop them some goods on a more regular basis... at great risk to their own personal aroma and reputation of course.

"Hey, Linda? Brian's looking sharp as a knife with that new suit and ace phone, but have you seen all those filthy mixers he keeps meeting up with?"

I may be totally wrong, but I can see that leading to corpies shouting their disgust of the mixers from the rooftops, just to keep up appearances, even while they're hiring in mixers to fix them up with cheap stuff.

From the mixer side, I expect doing a job for a corpie is less likely to evoke "Aww, what a great guy, they gave me a great tip, I love corpies" than "Hah, what a baka, I just earned half a weeks wages in half an hour off that stuck up corpie prick, hope he chokes on his overpriced bagel." as a mental response.

(Mental responses for extremely contrasting illustrative purposes only, not meant to sound snarky at you or anything Coconut :) )

First, maybe we need to emphasize the "dirty mixer vs. clean corpie" thing more. I mean, if you live in a place like the mix you are likely going to have a base level of dirtiness that will never come clean unless you have access to better facilities for some time. Maybe mixers should assume clean characters are corpies or in cahoots with corpies and vice a versa.

Maybe have the game force corpies to see other corpies like we do now (as clean as their charisma and showering habits allow) and see non-corpies with some kind of mix dirty tag added on (no matter how charismatic or frequently you shower). While mixers see other mixers as we do now with corpies having a kind of impossibly clean tag added on. Maybe those tags take a week or two to shift should your status shift.

This could be reflected ICly by the fact that mixers simply live in a very dirty environment with dirty water and poor facilities. The grim just gets baked in. At the same time, if that is where you spend all your time it starts to look normal while corpies start to look impossibly clean.

Second, I prefer not to think of Gold as strictly topside. It is full of mixers. It is full of corpies. It is more middleside than anything. Yes, the corporate campuses (including the HoJ) are going to be fairly well locked down and clean but the streets and stores and public areas will have loads of mixers. Just how I've always seen it at least.

I'm just sort of anything that further gamifies the interaction/relationship between two classes with invisible stats and gimmicks, this sort of thing should be handled with RP only imo.

This goes for a corpie or a mixer, if you have low-ish Charisma you aren't the type to clean your nails everyday or exfoliate (sp?) your pores. Nice clothing is somewhat of a band-aid for this, but it's really only half of the picture.

Your stats / archetype can always be a great way to guide your RP. Any mixer that makes the climb topside can evolve their RP into seeing themselves as superior and that's why they 'made it'. Combat characters think mixers are jealous because they are -actually- tough and can handle themselves when those wanabes can't and couldn't make as professionals and are only worth guarding titty bars or whatever. INT characters can feel like they were smart enough to find their way out of the squalor and any mixer would try to do the same if they were educated enough, etc. The RP be filtered through your character's personality, past, current mood. Don't let it be generic.

I would always say to try and bring as much specificity into the RP as possible, let daily events guide it -- some mixer bitching on SIC about a dipper, make fun of them for living somewhere where they get mugged, or just a snide comment saying 'And that's why I live on Green'. Not every action or comment has to be turned to 11 -- even small slights add to this aggregate, constant feeling between both sides.

Corpies, remember what you can get away with topside. Mixers, imagine you can get away with more topside than you think, because you probably can -- and even if you don't, you'll shake things up and the RP for everyone will be outstanding.

I think something that would be amazing for both sides, truly game-changing for both sides (this was touched on by another poster), is reworking Gold sector. It's already got a LOT going on. It would probably need perhaps a very slight size increase, which I know probably would never happen, but I'm throwing the idea out there. I'm talking the addition of perhaps an additional 4-5 'street' rooms or something, just to increase the overall surface area of it. It'd be amazing to see Gold reflect more of a true 'downtown' megacity. The gleaming megacorp towers / areas are perfect, but the interstitial areas are a smidge grittier, with more mixer/service/corpie mixture, food trucks, NPCs, the new shrouded NPCs, etc. A few fewer NPC judges on the streets. An area still very corpie-leaning and relatively safe for them, but a place that feels a bit less off-limits to mixers, opens up an area for more interaction / crime / etc.

Oh, and I don't know if it's just me, but does anyone think somewhere on Gold that's rentable by the hour would be really nice for quick clandestine corpie/mixer meetings and dead drops?

First, thanks everyone for responding with your views/thoughts/ideas. It's great to see that this is important to so many of you.

Thanks players and gms alike for helping keep the post on track.

Why do corpies hate mixers?

- They don't 'hate' them, they don't care about them

- They don't 'consort' with them pubicly because it negatively effects their status

- We need conflict or this isn't an interesting game

We aren't talking about harshing the divide, we're talking about what would give players more of a reason to stick to it on both sides.

I'm against a new system to manage your social credit with regareds to Mixers/Corpies because the divide is very nuanced and I don't want GMs to have to actively police it. I want to come up with ways that players will -want- to adhere to it.

A fallen corpie shouldn't be welcomed with open arms, but they shoudn't be killed on sight either. They should be exploited for the resources they probably still have at their disposal (their bank account and gear) and used up, until they hit rock bottom, and have to earn some street cred the hard way. They should be a scape goat for the anger that mixers carry toward corpies because of the day to day shit they have flung down on them (literally and figuratively) from topside.

A few people have commented on the plot suggestions like VS testing drugs on corpies, or 'accidently' (on purpose) infecting mixers with ebola. These are plots we've actually run in the past and will continue to run in the future, but they are GM based plots and require GM attention. I don't want the GMs to have to always be running this specific type of plot for people to buy into the divide, hence this post :)

"Like take crate running. Why do the corp crate runners always pay for delivery? I mean, it's just a mixer and if they don't come back there's 70 million other ones." -- They pay because it's shitty from an OOC standpoint and can leave people stranded or broke in an unfun way.

"Having corp NPCs ask about getting items for x price and then try to stiff or haggle down sometimes would also be on theme. " -- This would work for about as long as it takes a single player to spread the word that those jobs are bunk, and then the BGBB posts about unfairness and OOC annoyance of this would start. I love the idea and in a perfect world where everyone was 100% immersed it would work but... it would just not get used in our world, because people would OOCly avoid it. I don't want people to OOCly avoid time we put into coding thigns, I want them to ICly avoid (or engage) with it. I mean, it would sort of enforce the divide I guess... maybe it's worth a second look. What do you folks think? Would this be a jerk move from an OOC stand point? You work your ass off for a week to afford the thing the NPC topside wants and then you give it to them and they stiff you or don't pay you the full amount and you feel like you've wasted a bunch of time and aren't really even getting much RP out of it?

"Random short term incarcerations and shakedowns on gold would help by npc judges." -- dependent on GMs unless there are PC judges shaking down mixers, and if there are PC judges, you should be shaking down mixers topside, just saying. At least stop and frisk.

We want corpies and mixers interacting, but as many have said, we want it to be a sour interaction. If it's not sour, it build a relationship to easily, as it's really easy to slip into 'they are just another person to RP with' mode, and you stop treating the character with the disdain that the theme requires. This is why we go so hard on the divide. It's kinda the same with our rules on discussing IC info OOCly. We are super strict about it because if you give an inch some people will take a mile.

"Corpies really shouldn't think much about mixers at all unless they want something done. You can have a mixer friend, but you certainly wouldn't tell your coworkers or corpie friends about them. You don't hate an animal, you just use it." -- Agreed

"Yeah, you need interaction between the classes to foster RP, but it has to be perceived as unjust RP to really have a divide that's easy to get into." -- also exactly

So, there have been some great ideas thrown around here and I think the conversation itself has helped clarify the divide for many people, but I still feel like there is more to mine here.

One other point. CorpSec should get bonuses for getting info on their own Corpies dealing with Mixers. Photos, recordings, whatever. If you give them an incentive to root out people's personal lives then Corpies can live with the proper paranoia. Make it enough of an incentive and part of their duties and you make RP for everyone!