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Staff too lenient? Do we need more?
Cheating, abusing code, no-selling.

Hi people,

Incoming wall of text. I'll put a TL;DR at the bottom.

Firstly, I want to be 100% forthcoming with everyone when I start this conversation. I'm a player who has been voided and banned on numerous occasions in the past. I've learned and grown from my bans and suspensions, and I don't think that my bans were unjust in the slightest. If anything, they might have been a bit on the forgiving side.

I also want to say, that Staff have a rough job, and I'm trying to come at them from a place of support with this criticism, and to do so in a constructive manner.

I recently had a local OOC discussion with another long-time player about what we perceive to be a downward spiral in the quality of RP taking place in the game, and I think that there's absolutely something to be said here. The game has grown significantly in the past few years, and I'll be the first to assume that this is a mix of growing pains as well as perhaps a staffing issue on the staff side of the game (not enough?)

I'm going to try and be as vague as possible here and talk about IC events in a manner that's not going to turn into a paydata goldmine, and I ask that responses to this thread PLEASE DO THE SAME.

No selling feels like it is at an all-time high. People getting limbs amputated for IC events and then being allowed by staff to retcon it. People getting beaten nearly to death, tortured, maimed, etc. and still being John Rambo when they're one millimeter from the grave. Characters that will absolutely never break, never have weaknesses, and are pure walking power fantasies, even if their sheets and their backgrounds don't even remotely match this behavior.

Abusing code: This is a massive umbrella, and there's daily examples of this, or at least it feels like it. Sometimes it's innocuous enough- someone recently mentioned that their character had not been paying door fees for a significant portion of time. They had assumed it was because of some IC reason: it was a bug. Was any real harm done? No, not really. A trivial amount of chyen was not moved around in the mix. Big deal.

Then there's much worse examples: Using vehicle code to escape a literal riot of people trying to catch you. Does the code allow it? Yes. Does it make sense you're able to slide across the hood of your car, unlock the door, open it, climb in and ride off into the sunset when aforementioned riot is surrounding you? No, not even a little bit. Another example would be characters beating down every coded NPC of a gang at once, when we all know very well that there are hundreds or thousands of amb pop gangers occupying that turf, and being able to 'win' when fighting 'an entire gang' to me really does scream abuse of a faction because they have a limited number of actually coded NPC's. IC staff responses to these IC incidents have been entirely lacking, which does not seem to be fitting theme at all.

Finally, we have what is literally black and white cheating. I'm going to stay super vague about this, mostly because I've reported it to staff and respect their process, but I'll give a few examples here that seem to keep happening over and over again. Firstly, we have combat logging- which has been reported on characters by numerous people, on numerous occasions, and seems to keep resulting in voids or temp bans. Why?

We have players in the moo who continually reroll from a selection of a few prebuilt characters, go out, do dumb shit that immy characters really should not be doing and then get permed. These characters ALWAYS walk into the dome with loads of OOC knowledge, and will often walk in the dome and explicitly target out characters that were previously involved in perming them. It's been reported, time and again, and the player(s) are allowed to continue to play the moo. Why?

And I want to be 100% clear here with that last part, I'm not talking about 'Oh, this is something I -suspect- is happening.' I'm talking about people rerolling characters with copy+pasted nudes and changing one character in the name of their previous character (such as XXKills -> XXKillz) and what I ASSUME is copy+pasted sheets. I thought this issue had been dealt with and had stopped happening months ago when I experienced and reported it, and yet in the lOOC conversation I had with a fellow player earlier, they described nearly verbatim the exact same thing happening to them in recent times. And I hope that they reported it, I would assume that they have, as a veteran player.

My point in bringing all of this to the forums is two fold: One, I suspect that this is happening way more than one or two people notice, and if we're not being honest with one another and discussing it, we're never going to be able to discover the extent to which it is happening. The other point is that I'd really like to try and see if I'm alone in noticing these things, to bring awareness to staff so that they can xhelp and talk to us 1:1 concerning details and not dump them here and get the thread locked and deleted.

I'm expecting no small level of salt in the thread, but really, if these things are continuing to happen, it's essentially poisoning the well for everyone here. Furthermore, it's driving off what I'd personally consider to be 'good roleplayers' out of a sense of general distaste for the moo. And I don't want that to happen. And again- to be clear and transparent: even in some of the cases that I've listed, I think the person who is doing the items as described either flat-out IS a good, proven role-player, or they have the potential to be so with some course correction. I know it's helped me be a better role player in this game in the past, and I only hope that it will be for others as well.

TL;DR: People are being shits in the game, there's a growing awareness and resentment of it that's poisoning the well, and the staff responses to date don't seem to be sufficient in handling what seems to be an ongoing and growing problem.

I think this is in the wrong subforum and personally I feel it would have made a better email to the staff.
Agree with kroack, I don't think this is good as an open letter. Maybe better as a note/email. I think the game is going fine and the staff are doing the best they can.
Kroack, I have mailed staff in the past.

I want to discuss this on the BGBB specifically to feel out if this is a problem other people are experiencing, as I've met more than a few in game who have voiced similar complaints, and yet no threads are broaching this topic specifically.

There's always going to be trending issues, with any game, and the staff have always been responsive in identifying and tackling them.

I don't think it's any different than it has been before, besides the usual trouble coming with different hats on, and staff handling them appropriately.

It is also, honestly, two-three people causing issues. I feel like harping on staff isn't productive, they just said they were spending more time dealing with BGBB bullshit than GMing the game. Let's stop adding to that.
I don't want to come across as rude by saying this, but this is literally not something topside players are going to be experiencing directly.

I don't want to try and invalidate your criticism, but you're several layers removed from it, from say, a WCS greeter who sees the same thing playing out daily. Just my two chyen.

I haven't noticed any of this happening, have been having a lot of fun, have been enjoying the recent boost in playerbase, and have felt that the staff are doing a solid job.

More staff certainly wouldn't hurt though, it's a lot of work and probably the more the merrier if they can find reliable people who won't abuse the position.

Maybe what you're noticing most is that Cerb is gone and things he would have done with his position are no longer being done. Maybe for the worse, maybe for the better, but his primary function was to swing the axe and he swung it pretty fucking hard.

I've been noticing a lot of complaining about no-selling, even seeing some people talking about it on SIC (this seems like a no-no to me). Honestly, you can't force people to be good at RP, nor can you force them to -want- to RP being tortured. If you find that they are just the kind of person who is going to Joker their way out of a situation and laugh at your knife, just kill them and move on. No sense in getting worked up about your RP not going the way you'd like it to.

Overall, I'm noticing a lot more people coming in and sticking around, so I think whatever change is happening is nice. I've also noticed a HUGE boost in the way we talk to newbies on xgame, and I'm really proud of the community for that.

I don't like this.
@JMo

Cerberus was certainly good about being the headsman about these kinds of things, yes. He was very proactive about making sure actions had consequences, I remember very distinctly one time someone was talking mad shit about a very famous NPC and he did a scene whereby the person was tracked down and killed for doing so.

Those kinds of things I do sorely miss with his leaving. It brought a sense of grit and immersion to the game.

I don't miss Cerberus and that still of management personally.
You can't really ask the entire PB if they've noticed something then out certain posters vaguely Of their IC occupation and tell them they have no room to comment.

If it is a new player wcs-greeter issue and If you see an issue you think is against the rules report it. There's nothing you can enforce upon them ooc from your position and if they keep doing the same shit they probably don't care to hear it or are on these forums. Your general audience tends to be forum regulars who already Know of these issues.

Sometimes, I was kinda worried I'd get approached by Cerberus in the game. But honestly, most of the time, he was just downright helpful. #BringCerbBack2019? Or 2020, if that's pushy. :P

@TalonCzar You reminded me of an incident where I, long ago, almost insulted a very famous character over public SIC and got called out for it by the same person, which made me excuse myself for it. I wonder if he did that stuff even then. By 'long ago', I mean like, two years ago or so. When I was a new player.

I think some things have improved the past few months, some have gotten worse. It's always gonna be ups and downs like this, I certainly think BGBB is distracting them more than it used to, so maybe we should stop spamming the forums as much as we do? Err, I had something else to add, but I lost the thought.

I also do think that saying 'your opinion doesn't matter because you're a topsider' is a pretty strawman arguement. It feels like these are IC situations issues that have been bothering you, so instead of making a BGBB post and appealing to a specific playerbase, maybe you should just take it up privately with staff.
This is all kind of meta and not appropriate at all for a BGBB discussion.
I think their issues seem very unrelated to each other. It could just be observations they're not personally involved in. Maybe it would be best to talk to staff about it, but I also understand where they're coming from, if this is bugging them and they think it's bugging more people too.
I am in full agreement with TalonCzar on all points except that I don't think it's appropriate to bring up former staffers here.

I have spent more time dealing with cheaters and OOC drama from players in the last two months than I ever remember having to before. I've had people carrying metagrudges across 5+ characters and I've seen people straight up logging out in the middle of combat to avoid dying and being welcomed back to the game when they deigned to log in hours later - multiple times. I've seen people persist in sexual grossness despite being told to stop. And always the no-selling. There comes a point where the illusion of any kind of IC world is totally broken by a player making no real investment in the game who is able to demand your time and attention due to your IC role.

I know it's a hard balance to strike but there is definitely some disharmony present both IC and OOC that was not so much in the foreground before.

can i just say its like every fucking day now we're having these bgbb shit-flings

can we stop

I'm not staff here, but I was staff in a different game for several years, and funnily enough filled what some might think of as the 'Cerberus' role.

I don't think some of you get what you're doing. From the boards, to xooc, to actions in-game, the dog-piling 'cliques' (god I hate having to use this word in my 30s) and in part even this thread. Staff members are volunteers (this doesn't mean they're immune from criticism). They want to provide a fun experience for you. Create for you - whether plots, build areas, code, little nuggets of personal fun that last only a few moments. They don't want to babysit you. They don't want to have to mediate between players not being able to act maturely.

Except over the last few months they've had to do this constantly. At some point staff -will- run out of energy to deal with every single issue, it'll drain them, it'll make the experience not fun for them at all. It takes up a lot of resources (time, energy, motivation) to handle these kind of issues. Which means there's less time to handle other matters and/or those issues pile up because the ones happening in public view, the nastiness between players on the boards, in xooc, they're the pressing ones since they affect the entire playerbase.

This isn't an issue of staff being too lenient. This is an issue of an increasingly aggressive and unaware portion of the playerbase taking up resources and grinding a group of volunteers down. Fix that among ourselves and you'll start to see other problems which may exist getting fixed.

If there are specific players that are problematic they should be reported, but not publicly.
I'm not here to attack staff.

That's not the point of this post, whatsoever, and if it's badly titled, I accept that 100%

The intent of the post is to discuss community issues what seem to be plaguing the game, and if staff are overwhelmed and are not able to cope with it, what we might be able to do and recognize as players. There are new people here that legitimately don't know what's going on, and they should have some awareness into what actually is cheating and harmful to the game as a whole.

Also, I'd like to not be accused of doxxing posters IC information when they themselves post about being topside and dealing with topside issues in this same thread.

Thank you.

+1 Crashdown
I think personally this is a terrible post and invites a boatload of salt, especially if you are insulting people's rp if they are found to be within the rules of the game.

Your example of the player who got away in his car. It rings of "this did not go my way or how I wanted, therefore it is abuse of code or rules". It is not that players fault that there is a lack of vehicle combat code or that the 15 people ready to riot were too slow on a draw. If you want people to agree to doing being surrounded by 15 people in their car you need to agree to possibly being dragged down the street as a hood ornament.

That's all a I really gotta say on the entire premise here. I'll see my way out now. :D

I can't agree there Crashdown. I've worked as an admin elsewhere and it was always obvious when we'd used too light of a touch because you'd see the negativity boil over and start to spread. Certain people engage in antisocial or borderline antisocial behavior and it very much poisons the well when it isn't checked.

I don't think staff has been lazy or dismissive but I do think things might have been handled a little more strictly in the past and that this may be the result of that.

aight just disregard my posts then cool
'Do we need more staff?' - The answer is yes. Hence why we have encouraged players to submit SGM applications.

'Are staff too lenient' - Maybe. Though if we were less lenient, Talon would have been perma-banned from this game long ago. The fact that we relented time after time and they actually developed into a productive, contributing member despite being a problem player for so long, is a point in favor of being lenient, no?

The premise of this thread is rude and unnecessary, assuming that we cannot do our jobs or enforce theme. It also reeks of bleed on the part of the OP. We deal with these issues as they come, the best we can, in our current short-staffed state.

If you are not satisfied with outcomes after reporting issues via xhelp, we encourage you to mail [email protected]

Your example of the player who got away in his car. It rings of "this did not go my way or how I wanted, therefore it is abuse of code or rules". It is not that players fault that there is a lack of vehicle combat code or that the 15 people ready to riot were too slow on a draw.

No grizzly, it smacks of code being abused. You're really arguing that 15 people were sitting with their asses on their hands in a tense situation?

I *literally* had Kill X in my buffer and hit enter when said character appeared. What happened? They got in their car. Nothing happened. Because the character was removed from the room server-side before my client was updated, and my command was sent to the server and acknowledged. That's not a RP issue. That's a code issue.

@TalonCzar

The players in question are probably not self-aware enough to realize that they are a problem and are likely immune from public shaming. This reads as (especially with the title), 'Staff isn't doing enough so I'm going to try my hand at it'.

The issue is, this post itself piles on the staff and probably makes them feel further besieged by BGBB bullshit, which we should be trying to wind down not increase IMO.

Then use the proper tools to lock them out from their car. They exist. Find out icly Be prepared or be disappointed Talon.
I agree with storm and crooked... This was largely unnecessary at best and actively harmful to the community at worst. And I wish it would slow down or stop.
@Crooknose: That was not my intent. I have mad respect for the staff. I'd not be here today if it were not from the actions of staff- some dramatic irony present.

And Storm's probably right, in that there might be bleed going on. It's certainly frustrating when you say "Hey, I xhelped this person cheating before!" And then 2-3 other people also say "Hey, me too!" and then you see the character still on the who list.

Part of that is bad on us, for questioning what efforts staff have taken to cut down on this. But I think partly it's bad that we don't have any insight into the process (even after the fact)

Perhaps we could have a police blotter style thread in the game updates that posts quarterly bans and suspensions, and the basic reasons why, like we do with the town hall meetings? That might help in making players feel like due diligence is being carried through to completion when they report cheating.

@crooknose

The issue is, this post itself piles on the staff and probably makes them feel further besieged by BGBB bullshit, which we should be trying to wind down not increase IMO.

That wasn't at all my intent in replying here. What I am suggesting is that there's a general consensus that the community has gotten saltier over the last several months and I'm suggesting that a firmer hand from staff might course correct.

Not to quote the meme too hard but salt gets into the air. If people are irritated they express it and that spreads from person to person as the overall mood of the community shifts. I think just asking ~200 people to chill isn't going to do a whole lot on its own.

I really miss chatting playfully and joking around in xooc and checking out the cool or less than cool ideas but now its all a bundle of stress. Stress I really dont need added to my day, but i come back because i love this game.
I don't think a "ha ha look at what happened to this guy" thread is any sort of a good idea.
I agree, bans are opaque mostly to prevent a culture of players fiending over who's been banned for what.
@TalonCzar I really didn't think there was any bleed or anything in your original post until you posted that you had this person in your sights and then they were gone. Kinda disappointed.

If it was from an observatory/neutral ground, I'd much more understand your annoyance. But if it's personal frustration, it should just be reported to staff.

I think asking Staff to babysit poorly played players - whether true or perception - is a lot to expect. Imagine how frustrating that would be, how un-fun and quite honestly, disenchanting. If Player A sees Player B RPing things wrong or improperly, then Player A should just stop RPing with Player B. And any other players that see that. It's up to us as the playerbase to stop rewarding badly played RP moreso than it is for the GMs to spend all their time 'policing' it instead of having an opportunity to create more valid and entertaining RP.

I work RL in an enforcement capacity. And, I can say that constantly having to deal with immaturity, bickering and people that just blatantly disregard common sense and courtesy rules can make a person just...give the fuck up. And, Staff quite honestly don't get enough credit for what they do. In the least. Stop pointing fingers at Staff, because as the saying goes, for every finger you point, there's three more pointing at you. Staff VOLUNTEER, at the detriment of their own play-time, at the detriment of their own enjoyment and even sometimes at the detriment of their own personal time to bring a better game for us. So, maybe we need to have a bit of respect for all that they do and say thank you. And show that thanks by not giving them bullshit OOC drama to deal with. Over and Over and Over. Then they can help give us IC drama that is much more enjoyable.

You see someone playing poorly, pull them aside and offer them advice. If they don't take it, then move on. Play with someone else. Leave notes for the GMs to get to when they can. If they can. But, overall SD is a world that is run by us, the players. We're the problem. Not Staff. And, we're probably making it all the more less-fun for staff with the things I've been seeing lately in the boards, xhelp, etc.

Making this post, I assumed it was going to generate a decent amount of negative feedback and resentment on my part, because talking about bad stuff happening in a game we all love is going to rile people up.

I didn't make the post to shit on staff. I didn't make the post to shit on other players.

There's toxic, bad behavior taking place in-game as much as it is poisoning the OOC space around here, and I wanted to make people aware of it and try and have an adult conversation. Not whine about game mechanics.

The ONLY reason I gave examples of what I was talking about, is because without it, people would either just blow it off as one person having a bad day (I'm just peachy!), it being an attempt to smear the game and staff (it's not) or people would simply ask for examples of what I was talking about anyways. We're lamenting about the good old days when we could kick back and joke around on OOC, but we're ignoring the toxic effects in the game- or we're blind to it.

If Player A sees Player B RPing things wrong or improperly, then Player A should just stop RPing with Player B.

That only works if player B isn't fixated on killing/slandering/harrassing player A no matter how many times anyone perms them and will cheat to avoid any consequences whenever possible.

@Jade1202

I agree a lot with this. To me, it seems like staff have gotten busier and busier by the day due to BGBB posts and other bullshit, and the XOOC chat gets blocked more and more often. I was gonna ask something on XOOC chat earlier when I noticed it was off, I usually keep it off when it's spamming too much and I'm in very focus-requiring roleplay. I have no idea what that was about.

I've also noticed that sometimes, requests take a lot longer than they used to. Puppet requests or service requests. I think we're causing a lot of issues for staff that take them away from their typical 'duties', that they volunteered to take onto themselves. They don't really owe us these duties, but they choose to take them on to keep the game going. To give us a good time. I honestly love the updates they make lately, the past year or so, they're just pushing out new features and stuff, I wonder how much they could do if we didn't cause them so many other bullshit things to deal with.

Sure, it could be that problems increased due to a lot of new players joining, but maybe we should try not to add onto that.

@Vera, then that is a blatant rule violation and I would imagine that Staff -do- deal with that. I'm more talking about the grey areas that were mentioned, that aren't rule violations but just poorly played RP that gets rewarded with more poorly played RP. I apologize for not being clearer with that comment.
I just want to say that generally speaking, choosing to avoid people whose RP you don't like is entirely dependent on IC circumstances. When you're being targeted either because of meta-grudges or valid IC reasons, your ability to simply say 'nah, I chose not to RP with you' is non-existent.

There's a reason why in my examples I listed, there's not a laundry list of taking to tailors and they made you bad clothing or something. It's usually involving red text, or the lack thereof- which almost always invalidates the concept of RP consent.

Personally I'm a lot happier with the vibes I'm getting from the staff these days than I was last year.

That said, I have zero interest in playing with people who combat log, or roll the same character over and over with OOC grudges, or no-sell regularly, or generally bring a ton of OOC salt into their RP. If we aren't giving those bad eggs long bans then I think we should start. Sindome isn't for everyone.

@jade1202

then that is a blatant rule violation and I would imagine that Staff -do- deal with that

Well no, they haven't been, so it's continued to happen to be something I have directly observed and experienced from multiple players. Blatant obvious rule violations with no punishment. That's why I posted in this thread about how that was bothering me.

You don't know whether someone's been punished or not. Someone not being punished how you think it should be handled doesn't equal a player not being spoken to or trained or the issue being pushed up to the ladder to someone who can and will handle it when they're able.

I think that the game overall has improved dramatically in the past two or so years.

It's in a far better place both in population and codedly. I remember a year and a half ago when input and move lag was at unreal levels, and it being a constant, daily annoyance. Game runs buttery smooth today in comparison.

From the sounds of things, it sounds like myself and maybe one or two others have been experiencing problems with specific other players, and that being a relatively isolated thing is a good, good thing indeed.

As I eluded to in my original post, I'm thankful for not being perma-banned, and I'd like to at least THINK that I contribute positively to the community. Perhaps I'm speaking from a place of bias here when I suggest that there should be more bans, and I accept that. And yes, more staff would be great. I've done soft-staffer duties in previous characters and roles, and I really do understand in part what it's like being a temp staffer from that experience. It's a slog.

OK but if I xhelp about someone doing something and I get told it's being handled and then they come back and do it again and I xhelp again and I'm told it's being handled and then they come back and do it again my flesh peels away from my skeleton and I die IRL.
These are some pretty huge accusations here, and I have -no- idea what you're referring to, but as a newish player (5ish months), reading this is pretty discouraging. Just putting that out there. Not sure how profitable you expect this kind of thread to be other than driving people away from the game.

I think maybe xhelping would be better, since it sounds like you've noticed quite a lot of shitty in game stuff that should be addressed specifically, and putting it out there vaguely for all doesn't seem very helpful.

Maybe you all need some kind of veteran only forum to work out frustrations or some such. Its encouraging you all care about the game so much, but the stuff in xgame, ideas forums, and passive aggressive memes are pretty bummer for the rest of us imo. Y'all need some kinda drum circle and hug it out.

Sorry you're frustrated. I like forums usually and I hang out in ooc when I'm not actively rping. But these forums have been really eek lately and I think I'll peace out and just subscribe to slithers update posts.

Maybe you all need some kind of veteran only forum to work out frustrations or some such. Its encouraging you all care about the game so much, but the stuff in xgame, ideas forums, and passive aggressive memes are pretty bummer for the rest of us imo.

I'm not sure what this is besides mud slinging and an attempt to derail the thread by bringing up the meme squad accusations again.

Because these seem like longterm, veteran player concerns. That's entirely valid, and I genuinely feel the staff should reach out to veteran players because they are important to all of us.
I logged on this morning after not being logged off for more than 12 hours to 135 new posts on the BGBB. I choose to read every BGBB post as part of my role with Sindome. I would imagine that most other admin in the game would also read pretty much every post here.

Instead of processing the three outstanding service requests we have that only a senior admin can deal with, I am here writing this post.

We have made it very clear that any further dickish behaviour on the BGBB would be punished harshly. Just yesterday I banned someone from the BGBB - This involved a 30 minute conversation with the player involved and also a fifteen minute discussion admin side. I would ask all players to take everything they read with the intent that the other party was attempting to be constructive in their comments and not deliberately antagonistic. If you've got a problem with something said here, feel free to xhelp. We may not always agree with you - we will however look into it. If you feel someone is attacking you in a thread, and you respond to that in kind and inflame the situation then you are just as much to blame if a thread turns into a total dumpster fire - and just as likely to be punished. 'He started it' did not fly in high school and it definitely doesn't fly here.

We actively monitor a number of things in the game for player conduct, then we have a conversation with a player about the situation as it occurred. It is not out of the normal for a rules related conversation to take over an hour. I saw one about a week ago take two and a half hours. These happen regularly as a normal course of what we do.

This is time that I, and other admin can't spend doing the things you want us to. Training new admin takes time - and there are certain things they just can't deal with (perusing the forums and posting as an example).

Imagine if you will, that every admin reads every post on the BGBB and it takes 20 minutes to do so daily, that's probably two hours of lost admin productivity time - not even including the discussions this can cause admin-side. Then another fifteen minutes or so for me to respond to it.

We want to be creating fantastic content (plots, review balance for different parts of the game, add new functionality to existing objects, release content for the potentially underserved areas of the game etc) for the players in our community, however there are only so many hours in every day - and until people start being nicer to each other, we just aren't going to have the time collectively to give you as many of those things as we would like.

Help us make the game you want to play by actually playing the game.

@Vera I understand the predicament. But it could be something that's been going on for months and they are gathering all suitable evidence.

In the past, I noticed people talk about some serious rulebreakings that weren't found until someone mentioned it in passing, I think staff had to dig into logs from months before then, since it was an older matter. I don't think we see everything, but they definitely have a large workload on their hands. And I don't think openly complaining about how staff handles things will make them more motivated to help.

I personally love the current staff’s management approach. I feel as if more RP is allowed to happen organically, and as a result it’s allowed more players to shine and flourish.

Sure, a few bad apples will always be in the cart. Report them when it happens, but trust that staff will do what needs to be done.

I should add that I also think staff has created an environment that is much better to RP in lately. The specific issues I mentioned and the OOC bleed affecting the community are a minor kink that I think needs addressing but otherwise the game is a much more pleasant place to be than it was and I've said as much in the past.
I'm just a new player here as well.. Three months in, and I love this game, love the staff's style, and love the community. I think what is really evident from this BGBB stuff is how passionate certain people here are about the game.

The actions of three to four people on the BGBB, or in game, shouldn't make us feel like this entire place is screwed up just because they are the loudest. I'm sure staff is working on it on both accounts.

I'm going to repeat what BigArg just said, because my situation is basically the same. Been playing for three months, I love the game, and I have a lot of fun playing with people who also have a lot of fun playing it (I'm presuming).

I will be perfectly honest and say posts like these are troubling to me. The forums have been absolutely painful to read lately from a new player perspective and airing out more dirty laundry is just really.. well, sad. I'm not saying I want to turn a blind eye to this. This is not my first rodeo in a MUD/MOO community and sad to say, everything described in the OP is nothing I haven't heard before. Having been a staffer in games long since past, I also know that there is so much going on behind the scenes that players don't even get a whiff of.

I have faith in staff in how they're handling things. A lot of what's happened lately is a result of people being people and the nature of the internet.

Apparently I was one of the few players who wasn't around for the car incident. Have you only read about it here on the boards, I'm just going to ask that everyone get over it and move on. It was one situation in a game that's been running continuously for about 20 years.
I'm going to assume this was a post made with positive intent that has simply sparked more drama than intended.

I think we need to be wary of romanticising "the good old days". Cerberus was kicked from staff with very good reason, nothing short of attempting a coup amidst staff and I don't think it is a co-incidence that there hasn't been a reddit outbreak since his absence. It wasn't an easy decision to remove him and let's not be toying with staffer feelings by questioning their judgement on this.

All in all staff do a great job doing what they do, particularly when you consider they aren't obligated to do it at all. They could if they so chose just be playing the game without any responsibility beyond playing their own character to the best of their ability. You can bet if that is what they chose to do they'd be kicking our collective asses in game rather than helping us progress our characters and plots as they do now.

There are always going to be better players and worse players in the community, particularly in the vicinity of a WCS greeter where players are new to the game and have yet to learn the standard expected of them. It is the responsibility of the community at large to coach players up to the expected standard. If players consistently fall short of the expected standard you can bet their characters won't get anywhere in game until the player learns how to play in a manner that is in keeping with what the community expects, as evidenced by the fact their characters keep getting permed. Try your best to play on and if it becomes too much extract yourself from situations where you are having to play with the rogue element and/or report accordingly.

All the best.

I could not have said it better myself, Mong.
Ya know what, I wrote out a long post, and it's totally fine. The gist was, haven't noticed these things, I'm new, and then I had some suggestions for the OP to do, but that's lame, I'll do them myself.

I'm going to write a thread about these behaviors, list probable motivations for them (bc I want to believe the best of our Sindome writers) and solutions for overcoming them. So far I have the vehicle code abuse, combat logging, remaking old chars, and no-selling. If y'all throw anymore out, I'll do my best to include them and find suggestions for alternatives.

My best friend jere-bear just could not for the life of him make an original char in our D&D group. I got together with him, hashed it out, and he really just wanted to tell the story he had stuck in his head, but dynamic events kept preventing them. So we made that char an NPC he narrated. He wasn't purposefully rehashing this guy to spite us or being stubborn. he just couldn't think of anything else when he had this story that HAD to be told.

If you're like me,. you're a little damaged, obsessive, and really believe in a good story. I expect these people we're calling out are too, but only staff can have the one on one dialog necessary to find the root, and extract a more cooperative player. my two cents

When it comes to things like this, it is rarely as black and white as some seem to think. Rarely are the players involved intentionally being malicious. Frequently it is a just matter of learning and understanding.

My first move will always be to help our players (probably my second and third moves too). I will always try and do my best to help you all understand what was not cool, why it was not cool and take my time in explaining it. I will do it again and again - as long as I feel that an honest best effort is being made and that there is progress.

If we start to see that a behavior is being repeated over and over and there is little change despite our best efforts, then we will escalate. But very rarely will this go from complaint to perma-ban in days. Hopefully it (prema-ban) will never happen and when/if it does, it will be after staff as a whole feel that there is no other option and for good reason.

There is no way I am willing to rush this process unless there is a REALLY good reason to do so and that very rarely happens. If we were to rush this process then we would have very few players left. I am willing to bet that 90% of our fairly active players have been talked to and helped instead of banned and punished. Often on several occasions.

At the same time, help us help others. If you see something that feels off, please xhelp or @note it. Let us know when another player might be doing something wrong or might need help. We will follow up on it for sure. As we see fit. None of us, however, shadow every player all the time so we do rely on players coming to us.

And when you come to us, come to us with your concern and not with an agenda. I am happy to hear your concern and address it as staff feels is best. I am not, however, going to enact your agenda - unless you are just lucky that what you think should happen just so happens to align with what we decide to do.

You might feel X should happen because of Y and that is fine. I can't stop you. But if you come to us with expectations like that, you might leave feeling like your concerns are being ignored when they aren't. They are simply being addressed our way. It's just your agenda that is being ignored.

Also, don't come to us thinking that you have a right to know what we are going to do to address the issue or expecting to be told all the factors that went into the RP or our decision. Rarely will we share these things as sharing these things rarely does any good and frequently does harm - and that's exuding cases where us doing so would out right violate other player's reasonable expectation of privacy.

@Mobius I like you, you do good work. :)

@MongOfTheWeek I thought the announcement was Cerberus resigning, not being kicked out?

@Evie Town hall was rather enlightening. Best not to dwell on it.
I don't think I missed a town hall recently... when was the last one?
Just reviewed the log. He resigned, but the circumstances weren't great and what I said wasn't entirely inaccurate. https://www.sindome.org/townhall-07-13-19.html
I usually forget that we have OOC channels in game, and maybe this isn't really helpful for those who enjoy being on it, but I've basically been unaware of the massive saltiness everyone seems to be feeling. The players seem to always be friendly and understanding in any OOC interactions I have, including ones where I made some stupid mistake that might've messed something up or even cost people chyen. That's something I've only seen improvement in during the past year or so.

Maybe take a little break from the OOC sides of the game and just go RP with your fellows. :)

+1 to Errant
This post is miscategorized and should have gone in game problems and complaints.

In the future miscategorized posts will be deleted.