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  • Remove appearance change from drugs
  • Or at least remove the penalty

Remove appearance change from drugs
Or at least remove the penalty

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This may totally be a fringe thing, I may be in the minority, I get that. But I don't use most IC drugs because a lot of them, including most recreational ones, either boost your appearance (and then drain it as the come-down) or drain your appearance as part of the primary effect.

Why should using drugs make me uglier or better looking? If you wanted to assess an appearance penalty during withdrawal, that would make perfect sense. You already have the coded symptoms, you already have the little description saying you look like you could use a hit, there's a good place to penalize appearance.

But like, why does taking lana hurt my appearance? Why do I look like shit half an hour after hitting a joint?

This was brought up with the Pheromone Enhancer nano and they were actually changed to give no appearance boost (but double charm) because it was decided that's not how they worked, they didn't change your physical appearance. I'd propose that we treat drugs the same way: no appearance modifier, double the charm bonus or penalty, optionally add an appearance penalty during withdrawal to give you more reason to scrounge the next hit, that way I can do all the candy I like without looking like a hag.

Thanks!

By Crooknose at Jul 31, 2019 10:31 AM
It's to reflect that you might act or look a bit different based on the effect. Either coming off a bit more bubbly and energetic or that you look spaced out and generally just look like shit as a result.
By Kiwi at Jul 31, 2019 10:32 AM
Does the drain recover over time?

People usually addicted age pretty terribly on overuse.

By Qurion2 at Jul 31, 2019 10:32 AM
Have you -seen- people who do the kind of hardcore drugs that Withmore has IRL?
By TalonCzar at Jul 31, 2019 10:32 AM
Maybe it has to do with physical effects drugs have on the body, like a long term meth addict would appear?

By Grizzly666 at Jul 31, 2019 10:33 AM
As a meth addict, I am not nearly as pretty as I was two years ago
By Stiza13 at Jul 31, 2019 10:35 AM
I think a good compromise would be integration of drug physical effects to @nakeds. A generic place to see if someone is addicted to drugs is not interesting at all.

Maybe smoker's have marks on the hands and lips that are noticeable by players with good forensics/perception.

Maybe injector's can pick where to shoot up and that leaves track marks that can be covered by clothing or make-up. Unless of course they've got extra medical skills and can shoot up in the white's of their eyes.

You should have to work to identify someone as a user and users should be able to conceal there abuse with various methods.

By ReeferMadness at Jul 31, 2019 10:35 AM
Lived with heroine addicts before, can attest to their charisma dropping as a result of long term use. Seen my fair share of cocaine addicts as well, same story. Ridin' high while they're up, look and feel and act like shit when their withdrawing.

If you want your character to be the prettiest belle at the ball all the time, but you want to use candy, ask your dealer for drugs that make you pretty. Or don't do drugs, it's okay to be a cyber-Quaker if your character is really -that- invested in their appearance.

Ideas that go something like "take all the downsides out of this buff and just gimme the buff" typically get a big fat no from the staff, and I have to say I agree with them. No risk, no reward. RP being ugly or downtrodden on the come-down, RP being hot and confident while you're high, the fun should be in the storytelling, not knowing that your character is teh uber sexy at all times.

By JMo at Jul 31, 2019 10:39 AM
Long term use, but does single time use recover the score, as the body is given time to recover?
By Qurion2 at Jul 31, 2019 10:40 AM
To Reefer's point, I actually built in my own drug-addled affects into my @nakeds based on the candy my char uses, I think anyone who is a heavy user should do the same. It adds a lot of flavor to the game, the immersion of drugs, and the character themselves to see their habits take a physical tole that others can clearly see.
By JMo at Jul 31, 2019 10:40 AM
Drugs can make you look better or worse in the short term. Acid makes you all flushed and sweaty, MDMA can make your skin look nicer in the short term because it dries it out. Some drugs numb the muscles in your face, making it look kind of slack, others make you more prone to smiling. They all influence your behavior, making you more prone to looking sloppy or put together.

Appearance in SD isn't just your inborn looks, it's how well you present yourself. That's why you can raise the stat without plastic surgery.

By Vera at Jul 31, 2019 10:53 AM
First, a question: How were you able to determine that drugs affect the Appearance sub-stat specifically, and not just Charisma generally?

That out of the way, I'm going to echo what other people have said based on my own experiences with various drugs. Both as a user and having been around other users.

Let's start with weed. The right strain is going to relax people, and relaxed people are generally more friendly and easy to get along with. Ergo, Charisma increase. The wrong strain can make people anxious and paranoid. Ergo, Charisma decrease.

Any sort of stimulant is going to make a person feel energized and likely more chatty. Cocaine, MDMA and meth in small amounts. Chatty, energized, wanting to socialize. Ergo, Charisma increase. Too much of a substance though is going to swing a person the other way. Sweaty and having a hard time focusing, scattered thoughts all over the place, inability to sit still, etc. Ergo, Charisma decrease.

I don't know about how Sindome models long term affects, if at all. But those are (should be) always negative. Anyone who does any drug for long enough, even pot, is going to take its toll on the organs / body. Drugs ARE bad. Any sort of regular drug use is eventually going to show up.

By Hek at Jul 31, 2019 1:03 PM
Having smoked between a gram and an eighth a day for over 20 years, and knowing quite a few others with similar intake. I have to disagree with marijuana being bundled with the rest of the drugs out there, at least IRL. Both I and my doc can attest that there are no negative effects after all of these years. And I am far from anything you would consider active. Just my two chy anyhow.
By 9UNCAr8amxuksqfN at Jul 31, 2019 1:22 PM
@9UNCAr8amxuksqfN

There are always exceptions to the rule. I consume cannabis and have for quite a while. I think I know what you're alluding to when you mention negative [physical / physiological] effects.

Have you read any of the new research about the effects of THC on people with brain chemical imbalances?

By Hek at Jul 31, 2019 2:05 PM
First, a question: How were you able to determine that drugs affect the Appearance sub-stat specifically, and not just Charisma generally?

I'm not sure which it affects, I just know my shortdesc changes from one grade of attractiveness to the next lowest grade of attractiveness. I had an inkling that this might be one of those things I'm totally in my own tree on and that seems to be the consensus.

By Crooknose at Jul 31, 2019 2:19 PM
Drugs in Withmore are more potent and designed to make you more addicted than their modern day counterparts. Drugs have benefits and they have negatives. Some do involve charisma as they affect your appearance while you are on them, or as an after affect. I am not convinced they shouldn't. Even pot makes folks grumpy when they come down and are no longer high on occasion.
By Slither at Aug 4, 2019 7:46 AM
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