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Alright, seriously?

This is absolutely silly. My character has had a single exposure to the drug Endoprine. For the past few real life days, my fairly mild-mannered character has been spitting in people's faces, paying people randomly and actually offering to suck people off in the street. You want a drug that causes hallucinations? Fine. You want to make me randomly tremble or retch or bleed as a purely physiological reaction? Cool. It is straight up power emoting to force me to say shit I wouldn't say, and frankly, it reduces the gravity of drugs to a bunch of after school special cartoon villain bullshit. It'd be comical, if it weren't so actively terrible.

Seriously, I feel like I'm watching a middle schoolers interpretation of drug use based on horror stories his conservative parents gave him. None of you know me, but I worked security for a rehab facility. While there are some horror stories, and there was a scenario where I almost had to fight a heroin addict, most addicts are people like you and me, and 'future super drugs' used recreational would not sensibly alter them to this degree. Its absolutely silly that any drugs would be used at all with this harsh and violent of a withdrawal compared to the meager benefits. You shouldn't have to care if I'm offended, and you don't have to care if I think this is dehumanizing. But you should care that the current system is absolute fucking ass, and literally nothing would be a better alternative. I can't code, but I cannot imagine it being too difficult to flag a character as addicted, let them know through prompts, and then simply trusting the player to handle that in a way that reflects their specific addiction and character. I promise you, the average layman could do better than the current implementation. Until then, scrap the whole thing entirely.

Take a deep breath.
Please go find a game you enjoy.
Take a deeper breath. Never stop.
Cerberus' retorts in a nutshell:
Kind of agree there, Ash. I don't necessarily agree that OP is right to be angry, but it'd be cool to see a justification rather than 'don't like, don't play.'
Dogg, the issue has been done to death. Everyone knows that the current system is something that discourages people from drug use. A large number of alternative scripts have already been written for both user experiences and withdrawal effects and these focus more on physiological reactions and internal experiences than forcing you to behave a certain way. They are awaiting a bit of code work to make it so that multiple scripts can be loaded on a character object dynamically and interact with each other on the fly. There aren't many coders and they all work for free and have a lot to do.

That's why it hasn't been fixed overnight. Now go RP.

So is this something you can RP over? Like if a prompt triggers you could just pose or emote what you actually do and recon the system's emote?

to add to this, or is this more the kind of thing where once it's out there, it's out there.

No, you have to respect the script. If you spit on someone, you spit on them.
You're outright attacking the people on a personal level that put the work into developing the current iteration of the drug system. That is staff abuse, community harm, et cetera, that is not welcome in this community.
Right, and since I've offered blowjobs for Endo, obviously I'm willing to go through with it. The script takes precedence over any reputation I'd want to be building, or my actual desires for the direction of my character.
The fuck? When did I attack anyone personally? Ever? I don't know any of you.
Heya Ash -

I'm Slither. I want to start by saying that, as the person who coded the system you're discussing, I agree with a fair amount of your points. A search of the website with our handy search feature would show you a bunch of places where we discuss improvements that we have/plan to make to this system.

Many of these scripts were written by players, in the past. They were written at a time when we were seeing tons of people taking drugs for the benefits and then completely ignoring the side effects and emotes that were visible to only them. As a community we agreed that it would be better to make not taking drugs when you were addicted, a really visible and horrible thing. It was a big correction, at the time.

These are super drugs after all, developed and produced by mega-corps that don't have to obey basically any laws. Think Big Tobacco times 1000. They want you addicted and so they make the drugs as addictive as possible.

That being said, a bit of research like I pointed to early, will show that generally, as a staff and as a community we think that we went prettttty overboard with some of the scripts. Heck, the ones you're seeing are the toned down ones we rolled out a while back that don't even have you blatantly attacking everyone around you when you want a fix.

As was mentioned earlier by someone else, we do have plans and some initial code and scripts for a system that handles drug addiction and drug interactions in a way that we think will be much better. Alas, as was also mentioned, there are only a few coders, and the system is complex enough that a junior coder won't be able to manage it. So it means a senior coder, which means me, or Johnny. Johnny is busy with real life things, and I have a real job and also spend a lot of my free time doing free technical work for local charities.

The time I have left is split pretty evenly between doing things only a senior admin can do, fixing bugs, and honestly, dealing with posts/emails/xhelps like this.

Now, all that being said... you came in pretty hot with your post. You're playing a free game, made and maintained by volunteers. This isn't Steam. You didn't pay for a game and then not get what you paid for.

If you look at our Ideas section, you can see we take player feedback very seriously, and encourage it often. If you want to be a part of our community, and offer feedback, we welcome that. But you need to do it with respect, and not lash out just because you don't like the way something in the game works. That, is not welcome here.

Hope this clears some things up for you, and others who find this post!

-- Slither

If your character is hollering about blowies for endo, then yes, you're desperate enough to make that kind of a promise. Whether you keep it or not is on you.

Sindome is not a game where you are in control of the world around you or how it views your character. Even the top dogs suffer frequent humiliating bullshit losses that make them look like idiots, no matter how well their players try to manage this. The game is constantly kicking you back to your second act so that you can work for a victory and try to get back to the third. This is baked into its design as a cyberpunk story.

The current system does not perfectly reflect real life drug use. This is not worth yelling at strangers on the internet about.

whooooops like eight posts went in ahead of me while i was writing that last one.
I have a tendency to use a lot of hyperbole when I make arguments to emphasize my points. That said, none of you know me, and its ridiculous for me to assume you know the intent behind my words when I'm calling things 'actively terrible,' especially when you don't know me. Moreover, I should have searched more for the drug code discussion before I started a new thread. I started doing obscene shit IC, I flared up at the lack of agency, and I posted. Thats not the mindset to be starting discussions on mechanics, even if I have some good points to make.

I apologize. Genuinely. Its not my intent to burn the house down with everyone in it. I do think it would be better to remove the system in its current form until the more elegant version is developed, but I can express that in a way that isn't insulting. I can only tell you I wasn't thinking about hurting people's feelings when I posted that. I'm really not that vicious. Desperate drug addicts are the giant rats of the cyberpunk setting. They're genre defining, and necessary. I just don't think its good to reduce players to the fantasy equivalent of a goblin.

I found a few minutes after posting/discussing this on game, and edited the primary drug scripts to tone down some of the behaviors that we've all agreed are a bit over the top.

They still force you to do things like itch or scratch or look over your shoulder, but the most blatant things like sending a SIC message, or actively offering to do things for a fix to other players should no longer be present.

It may take a bit for the old scripts to cycle out, but over the next 24 hours the changes should catch on. I've replaced some of the things with messages that the player needs a fix.

I am expecting all of you to continue to RP your drug withdrawals, when your characters become addicted to something. But the system will force you to do less obscene stuff. If you need better info on what drugs do, or how they might be RP'd check the lore pages, and other BGBB posts.

In the end, you can RP it how ya want, but ya gotta RP it. Nothing in the world is free. Those stat boosts come with a cost, just like too much cyberware does. Actively RPing drug addiction and withdrawal can be an interesting and compelling roleplay angle, especially if you're looking for a way to add some depth to your character.

It's okay to let them make mistakes, to fall down, to burn bridges, that you then get to rebuild in character.




More often than naught it's not really a case of what is said, rather how it is said.

I can't speak too heavily for Sindome in particular, but other places a lot of valid concerns end up getting flushed due to how it was brought up. Just something to consider when bringing something forward for review.

@XXXXXX, @pfh is correct. We often ask for feedback, and are always interested in it, when it's presented in a positive and constructive manner.

Taking criticism and feedback in stride isn't the easiest thing under ideal circumstances. It's much harder when it comes off as an attack rather than something constructive.

Let's be honest here and not mince words. No author, artist, developer, or creator, is going to respond well to aggressive, angry feedback. I'm a pretty pleasant person as many of you can attest. I do not think it is expecting to much, to expect feedback take into account the hard work, experience, real lives, jobs, volunteer status, and other obligations of the people that word very hard, for free, on this game.

'If you don't like it, go elsewhere' is our frustrated response to having addressed how/why feedback should be constructed numerous times in other threads and on xhelp.

(Edited by Johnny at 10:33 pm on 3/5/2020)

I just read through this page out of casual boredom and I agree it should've been more friendly and less aggressive, but I also agree with the point he was trying to make. It is easy to get aggrivated when you are forced out of the character you're trying to play. When things, whether it is people or the system or scripts, force you to roleplay your character in a way that makes no sense to its personality/backstory/ability/flaws, et cetera, it can get very frustrating.

I'm glad seeing how quickly it was resolved, even a lot of things fixed just in a day after the post. @Slither never seizes to surprise and amaze, it seems. :'P

Slither saves the day.