Class Conflict
Are 'teams' positive drivers of storytelling?

I've broached this topic many times in the past, and I recognize I am swimming against the current with it, but reading that room description served as a reminder of how this severe mix-corporate divide has not always existed.

Open class warfare has become a major plot focus of the game over the past year especially, and while it may serve to drive player conflicts in the literal sense of creating more combat, I think it's worth discussing (again) what is lost in terms of a fractured playerbase and limits on interesting (and public) long-form roleplay that come from how this divide works right now.

As it stands, corporate characters are attacked on sight when found in the Mix, and mixers can expect hostility or expulsion when entering (now) 'corporate-only' spaces. The push for this state I think is based on wanting to drive more player conflict, but I feel like it has gone too far to the point where public roleplay has been abandoned for 'attack X', and all class nuance has become totally black and white.

The long-standing answer to questioning splitting the already-small playerbase has often been 'mixer-corporate relations still happen, just behind the scenes', and I agree this does happen, but I would argue it's not especially beneficial to the game, and is a lesser form of roleplay that just is not as enjoyable or complex.

Public long-form roleplay is the thing which best showcases Sindome's strength in terms of storytelling. Reducing complex class roleplay to vatting whoever is on the "opposing team's" turf I think is a step in the wrong direction. Pushing for interesting player roleplay to be hidden from the playerbase at large I think is a step in the wrong direction.

I would say that Sindome already has an issue where experienced players involved in interesting plot already have too many reasons to keep what is happening a secret from the larger public, or even from everyone. There is already an issue, I think, with 'combat' being the de facto form of 'conflict' rather than roleplay. I think the 'team deathmatch' class conflict only exacerbates these issues.

I think it would be much more interesting to see corporate characters slumming with mixers in clubs, generating conflict between them naturally, or for service mixers to work more closely with corporations but face issues of discrimination and have social conflict arise from that. I think for class tensions to arise naturally these classes have to actually interact with one another in complex and public ways.

Obviously these kinds of social interactions are basically impossible in the current climate, but I would suggest that at some point in the future it may be worth considering mixing character classes a bit more liberally and publicly, and see if conflict and plots cannot be teased from that melange, because I think it would be beneficial in a public roleplay sense and would also give more players exposure to a wider variety of roleplaying styles and ability.

There's been a lot of effort put into explaining what those do and where those stand, that those are just simple mixers who work topside etc etc. But the fact is, they aren't treated such way most of the time. What the 'service mixers' actually turned into is weird middle of the never-ending battlefield where they are supposed to be hated and discriminated by both sides. Which, in our small community, cuts them off of great deal of interaction. I will argue that playing a service mixer is the most OOCly unfair position you can put yourself in. It's nothing but stress and ultimately boredom with no one to openly interact with aside from smiling and waving.

I really think that it should be more lax at least for the sake of those.

When 20,000c stops being enough to afford to hire people for most things, there is another kind of problem in the game, but that's probably for another topic.

This also goes beyond the mere 'Service mixer' is a thing, problem, because it is infnitely more stratified.

There is the WCS worker. There is the Hospital Doctor. There is the Ganger. There is the topside barista. Most of all there is the topside lease holder managing a business.

All of these, according to the artificial divide, are the exact same thing, with the exact same social standing both topside and in the mix.

There is actually more difference being made between a Corporate Employee and a MegaCorp employee funnily enough, and that one, given that play is largely contained within Withmore and it's surroundings rather than the International scope where MegaCorps make a real difference, is laughably small compared to the giant spread that exists in 'Service' mixers, and even those just working different jobs or belonging to different factions down in Red.

To understand why things are so openly aggressive today, look at the theme. The Mix is a slum, it's not just a slum. It's a super slum. Think of the world's worst slum, make it worse, and put ten times the density of Manila in it. And all because of the corpies. The corpies stole your future, your money, your freedom, while laughing as they shower in heaps of flash... who in their right mind would let one of them come clubbing in Red?

Or, if you're a Mixer, like millions of others starving to death, trying to get money together for rent. WHY WOULD YOU NOT attack that Corpie on sight so you can take their clothes and sell it for 20% of retail so you have something to eat?

Can you imagine walking down Detroir, Baltimore, or Your-Average-Shithole-Neighborhood wearing a crisp suit and carrying your fancy expensive gadgets and not knowing you have a 1/2 chance of getting jumped (amplify these odds in an extremely downtrodden CP ambient).

Now conversely, try walking down an expensive, upscale neighborhood, or walking into a fancy shop or restaurant while smelling, covered in filth and grim, and let's see how long you stand without being accosted by security or cops.

What stands these two apart is the status they have with a corporation because corporations rule it all. This is part of the theme and something I would personally never like to see changed.

It's extremely jarring and doesn't seem to line up with what the narrative is supposed to be.

If I had my way, I'd get rid of all automated jobs in general, making them all revolve around RP, so I may not be the best person to take a stance on this.

@pfh

That's simply the ebb and flow of plot. Staff will tweak things, as they need to see fit, whether due to trends they want to see changed or to create a spark for RP. Things, currently, are part of a pendulum swing and I'm glad to see it played off of in plot.

All of the Mix is a slum...

In the grand sense perhaps, but in terms of the room-to-room descriptions there are a variety of places representative of different economic states. There are more upscale businesses (some of which describe "suits" being present as my first excerpt shows) and residences which range from literal trash-strewn shacks to very elaborate indeed.

The vast majority of mixers by population are underprivileged wretches ground under the heel of society and left with nothing, but that's not representative of the player-character reality by any means. Nor is it representative of the society described topside where there is clearly a significant population of service mixers which intermingle in corporate society to at least some degree.

It's a struggle to get people to role-play out the hardships of the theme and to put themselves in a place of poverty and starvation. Given the choice to eat nice food, wear nice clothes and fuck around with whoever they want, the path of least resistance is to do that instead of roleplaying out a dystopia.

People prefer to play the Mix, in my experience, because it's where more (tangible) things regularly happen, while still wanting all the amenities of topside. Opening up the doors for no class divide would mean even less corporate players imo.

You can't have your Mixer cake and be a dietitian who suggests nutrient density powerfoods like kale in their jacuzzi too.

The argument is to make it more realistic. Real life is more dynamic than "you're poor so you'll never save up for months to buy a nice suit or dress because you've always wanted to know what it'd be like to go to that one amazing place you see on the vee and maybe even meet a cute guy."

Cue either being publicly humiliated, getting lucky and making a friend across the social divide, or both.

I'm not arguing for expanded class interaction on my own behalf, but for a more interesting and dynamic environment for us all - while citing examples of how this has real-world contemporary and historical societal parallels.

If that's not something the GM's feel fits the theme, then that's quite alright. Its their prerogative.

There is a disgusting amount of class interaction and conflict going on right now. From my perspectives, it certainly seems like every Tom, Dick and Harry in the mix are working on the DL for topside assets while publicly screaming about 'death to carpiezzz!' on the public networks.

Expecting suits to hang out in a mix club seems like a place that SD is not ever going to return to. I'm imagining that this was more of the thing in the past when there wasn't enough players to form literal pitchfork and torch-bearing mobs. Going forwards, I can't see this happening. Now, if we wanted to discuss people rubbing elbows on gold, that's again, already a thing, it's just not happening publicly. And we have all the tools at our disposal to start holding player-driven events at neutral locations on Gold- it's just that given the themely class divide, nobody wants to be seen schmoozing with dumpster goblins or salarymen.

Back to the fact it'd be a culture change, the things to enforce it would be even more against theme. Gang leaders telling gangers not to attack people. Judges punishing more people on Red.

I think that currently, there's a lot of avenues for that kind of conflict already, it's just that many players don't know how, aren't willing, or aren't willing to find out how.

That is 100% opinion and taste. Other players are experiencing and richly enjoying this. With world-affecting results.

That said, the kind of meaningful conflict you're looking for does exist. However, it ebbs and flows. Not because of Staff or game mechanics but because of players. This is 100% the facet of the game the players have most license over. That's right, kids, the secret ingredient is YOU! Unfortunately, most people are more interested in persuing soft targets, quick transactions, and easy narratives rather then digging their teeth into the hard stuff. At best, I've found people fairly easy to rile up and point in a direction but results vary.

If you want change, get out of your cube, fuck your stats, and go get weird. As an oldbie, I think the best things veterans of the game can do is leave breadcrumbs to lore that is out there for newer players to latch onto so staff can pull those strings in ways that are meaningful to the player.

There's a handful of stagnant plots sitting in the open as write this - you want intrigue and meaninful classist conflict go get it.

Once again, obligatory "just because you're not seeing it doesn't mean it's not happening."

Again, this makes it sound like what you want is for the game to enforce the daylighting of other people's secrets with no RP or risk on your part.

I'm done, with an echo of Villa: "Don't fix what isn't broken."

I took a couple months off to sort out a few important RL obligations (job, kid).

Not surprisingly, I found myself with plenty of free time to dedicate to other activities. And with that free time, I asked myself whether or not I wanted to come back and play here again.

The sense that I have been missing something, the sense that there are major parts of the game that I did not get to experience, while I wouldn't say kept me up at night, they were definitely there, nagging at the back of my mind.

I think @reefer made the comment that YOU (us) as players define what happens in this game. THAT right there really resonates with me. As frustrating as Withmore can be, it is also an amazing place full of potential. There is so much story telling essence just laying about. From the MOO itself, to the minds of the players who inhabit it.

I know that the class conflict is there. I know that there are ways to bridge the divide, and to make the game a richer place for it. I know that the divide is there to be used as a narrative tool.

When I personally look at what "it isn't", I do not see a problem with the way things are. I see my own limitations as a writer, as a storyteller, and even as a leader.

I don't know much, but I do know that this is not the kind of game that is going to be changed by a single person acting alone. Even a group of people will likely only scratch the surface at best. There have been people playing this game for the better part of 20 years. I turned 42 this year, and it still gives me pause to think... "I wasn't even allowed to go out to bars yet, and there were people in Withmore telling stories which have created echoes that are still being heard today."

The divide isn't something that @Slither just pulled out of his ass two months ago and enforced upon the playerbase. It is THE dynamic that has evolved over multiple DECADES of human interaction.

@Aethertm: Everyone's journey to topside is different. Many do take the service route, and of those, many fall back to the mix or perm out.