[IMPORTANT] Ganger Roleplay Changes
What it means to be a ganger and the ganger code

Some of you may have heard about this ICly, but a shift this big requires an OOC announcement as well. We are making some IC changes to the way gangs behave / work to make ganger life a bit more appealing to players. This was enacted ICly using some PCs and NPCs, but was an idea that was presented by a player, and iterated by the staff into what it is now.

GANGS

Gangs are a great new player job/role/experience. Gangs are a great newbie to middlebe experience. Gangs are a great way to learn the game, and grow as a role player. Gangs are VERY themely. Gangs are a proving ground for becoming a syndicate member, a solo, or some other next level character.

THE PROBLEM

Gang fights with PCs and NPCs result in gangers dying a LOT. It's costly, results in an overabundance of perms, and becomes frustrating. It's a meat grinder that once entered, is hard to leave. The core of ganger RP is rivalries with the other gangs, but those rivalries often degrade into situations of little RP, people hiding in cubes to avoid being neck snapped in a fight, and a bunch of other things that reduce the amount of RP gangers actively get to engage in. Given there are so many newbies in gangs (or at least we want there to be), and given that a single well geared middlebe can take on a group of newbies, it's really hard to balance the gangs, to make an interesting and compelling experience, and to keep things fair and fun.

THE SOLUTION

We've enacted an IC solution to this in the form of a 'ganger code' that all the NPC run gangs have agreed to. The code, OOCly, is intended to prevent ganger PCs from constantly dying or getting frustrated OOCly with the role. If every ganger always kills every other ganger they fight with, and they fight, and the role of ganger is defined by fighting, it's not great for RP.

Instead, gangs will be encouraged to simply beat each other down in fights and then rob each other. Showing their dominance not by killing, but through actual dominance and strength. This means that proper planning, role play and other things will be required instead of it just being a meat grinder all the time.

There are plenty of IC reasons for this to happen, of which, you can discover ICly. OOCly though, there are many benefits.

THE REASONING

1. It allows us to have a finger grain macro control over the ganger RP by allowing us to bring members of different gangs together for RP on a more regular basis through ganger diplomacy, turf wars that aren't murder fests, and a ganger council that can act as an overseeing body over all the gangs.

2. We can have characters from different gangs have to RP with each other to accomplish 'jobs' the ganger council accepts.

3. Balance. If one gang steps out of line, the other gangs can bang them back into line.

4. Proving grounds. The gangs have always been intended to be a proving ground for PCs that want to become Solos or Syndicate members. This doesn't often get a chance to happen because gangers are typically very short lived, or leave the gangs quickly due to OOC frustration.

5. Imbalances in gang membership are less of an issue. Think about this: 1 gang with 4 PC members, those 4 pcs get lots of RP with each other and it's great. But what about the other gangs that have 0 or 1 PC members. It's boring for the 1 PC member of this other gang, and also unfair since they have to go up against this other gang that has 4 PCs planning the 1 PCs death. We could put 1 member in every gang and slowly work up to 2 members but that's still boring for the 1-2 members that don't have anyone to RP with or plot against. This allows us to have less balance while still allowing it to be fun for those who aren't balanced, since they aren't waking up at Genetek every time they leave their cube.

6. This doesn't mean no deaths. Gangers can still plot to kill other gangers, they just have to be more crafty about it and be ware the council because if caught there will be repercussions. It also means accidental kills in combat have to be RPed. Do you get the resuscitated? Do you lie? Do you cover it up?

7. Higher gang membership. We're hoping that this change makes the gangs more viable as a character path and that we can get a lot more people into the various gangs.

8. TERRA. Terra also signed the agreement. This means that TERRA Agents (arguably the most dangerous job in the Mix) are not going to be killed on sight. They might get beat down like any other gangers but they won't be killed every day, and people can work at becoming Judges or Corpsec through TERRA. They can also become corrupt, and that is awesome.

9. Syndicates. Syndicate RP is fun. Ganger RP is fun. They are on different levels though. They shouldn't overlap. Not much anyway. This helps us to give an IC reason for why syndicates and gangs do not interact much. It's just too easy for a syndicate member to get an entire gang to go after a rival or for a gang to hire a syndicate to go after a rival. This prevents that in an IC way, bringing more balance to the game.

10. Neutral places. The Drome has always been neutral but now in general, bars/clubs will be neutral and fighting will take place outside them. That means that gangers can go out, shit talk, and enjoy their role, but also be fairly confident that they won't get mobbed by a rival gang and killed just for going out and RPing. It let's the RP be compartmentalized so that if you're in the mood to go get into a gang fight you can, but also, you can just go handle some biz at a bar and meet new characters and plot and plan and enjoy your RP experience while being super themely and fun.

11. RP. This means more RP. It means shit talking and fighting and challenges, and coming up with interesting ways to fuck over your rival gangers.

EXPERIMENTAL

This is an experiment. It might fail. If it does, it's easy to have the gangs go back to the way they were. We're hoping it succeeds though, or that it leads to problems we can address IC, and grow from.

Questions?

-- S

Thank you, I really like the idea a lot.

While a new player here, I'd like to draw a parallel to RL gangs, and why they rarely kill one another - it's bad business. Sure, blues could always go to the reds turf and kill some reds, but then the blues will do the same. The result of that is that both gangs lost members, got customers who are afraid to come to their turf to buy stuff so no one benefits from it in the end. Which is why wars are rare, but when they happen they are decisive, surgical and to the death of one side.

Not sure how that aligns with how they are now, as I've mentioned I am a new player, but giving them some sort of turf to fight over, that they can split, fight over and have actual benefit from, would be pretty kickass, and would allow for stuff like peace, border friction and so on.

They're the eyes and ears of the Judges, they aren't supposed to be a direct response force.

The mega-corporations are UN recognized corporate states and even a union of gangs isn't going to take anything from them. Harassment, grabbing corpies in the Mix or on the Lev, or shit like that is a lot different than rising up and forcing the Corporations and the Judges to go full militant in response.

We need to be careful with what we allow ourselves to try to do with things at time so we can respond appropriately with the theme.

Just because Joe Baka at NLM CorpSec has 500 UE and is dumb, doesn't mean NLM CorpSec isn't backed by one of the most powerful corporate-states in the solar system, scan?

Hopefully this helps with perspective.

I don't think adding "safe no-man lands" in Red is a good idea for the sake of theme. The Snakes have been there for years and they are as themely as Sinners or Arteries. If you want neutral grounds, well, those do exist. I'm thinking the branched streets: Gibson, Beretta, Klobb, Death Row, are all good places where small time gangs can work petty crimes.

No ganger treaty Gangers not killing gangers doesn’t do anything but nurture an environment of safety for midbies to grow old.

The treaty doesn't mean Red is a safe place, it just means that gangers can not kill other gangers for gang related reasons. That's the end of massive gang wars that yield a pile of corpses. I don't think it's particularly giving midbie an OP resource (army of NPC support) considering the rules there are in place for when you want to use said NPCs. It's no different than joining the WJF and having all the Judges in your side. Pick the strongest side and you shall prevail...

Foster newbie growth Gangers are the real immy greeters not WCS. If your idea of welcoming a immy is choking them out and shoving them in a dumpster with little to no RP because you’re a ganger - you’re the problem.

Fully agreed.

Employ and support newbie gangers The real problem I see this trying to solve is clone deaths and DCD for new gangers.

I think this treaty is fixing exactly this. Gang enviroment used to be ruthless and deadly as well as extremely expensive in terms of DCD fees and clone money, this meant that newbies and midbies that couldn't measure the consequences of their conflictive actions ended up getting permed or just plain quit the game because let's be fair, it's shitty to die day after day just because you want to get involved in cool ganger RP. Plus, adding a Mixer-Perk with DCD treatment cannot be possibly explained from an IC themely point of view without breaking immersion.

Fully agree with all your points regarding syndicate/ganger interaction and promoting ganger economy.

I also like the idea of having more unregulated prime real estate. Even those side roads are technically claimed by a gang. There really isn't much space to play in that isn't gang owned and regulated. I remember frequently feeling stifled and like there was not really much room for me to bring my own creation into the game.

Foster newbie growth

Mostly agreed. A lot depends on the situation. If a ganger runs into an immy the RP can range from friendly advice to intimidation to a job offer to chocking them out and leaving the in the dumpster. It largely depends on the actions of the immy and others in the scene as well as the personality of the ganger (not all gangers are the same).

And to be honest, one of my best immy memories was me getting my ass beat to exhaustion and left on the street. If forced me to reach out and connect with other players and started my character on a path for revenge. Gave them a goal. Your mileage may vary.

And teaching doesn't happen all at once. In most of my experiences it's a process in which you pass on a little at a time. The first meeting you might learn about disarming. The second you might learn that you can frisk people and how grapple and frisk interact. The third you might learn the name of one of the other Gangers. In the fourth you might learn that this particular biz is protected by that particular gang.

It's this continued thread of interaction that results in the immy learning more and more as time goes by. I've never been a fan of the three hour data dump but that just might be my own preference.

Employ and support newbie gangers

This has a lot of angles in my opinion. If you only have one PC ganger then the traditional ganger economy kind of breaks down. Gangers in the past made a lot of flash by taking things from rival gangs. But if you have just one PC ganger then any attempt to do this (unless you are a dip) needs GM involvement. And even when you are lucky enough to get some GM time, you are usually in a one against them all scenario and lucky to leave with your life let alone anything of value.

To get the economy rolling in the old style you need at least one PC ganger in at least two different gangs. Ideally you'd have a few in each gang. Then you have targets that you can go after that don't involve as large of a drain to GM resources and fun PvP action. But even then Clones and DCD costs will add up if you are creasing each other non-stop.

And getting people to join gangs is not easy. Some have no interest and most aren't willing to put the time and work in. As discussed in other posts, joining a gang is harder and more time consuming then getting a job at a corp or bar. And it's this challenging period where you are making enemies of the other gangs while not yet having the backup of your gang. And if your bid fails you just might have alienated yourself against a good part of the mix. I get why it is how it is but I also know that it has turned at least a few characters away from joining a gang. Plus the fact that you (historically) die so often might be off putting as mentioned before.

Or you could try something new. Like this code. Something that makes gangs more enticing and provides a way to maximize the impact GM time spent on gangs has by providing scenarios in which PC gangers of different gangs might work together against a common enemy.

And I would love to see more ganger tasks/jobs that go beyond, "Beat up those other gangers and that their stuff." A lot of the ideas Reefer threw out are awesome.

Syndicates will try to poach gang members that get their attention, at a certain point, like I mentioned in my previous post.

We aren't making it so gangers can't kill normal mixers. Nothing has changed there. We aren't making it so gangers can't kill each other. It just requires more planning and thought.

We are moving the 'ganger' role from 'all we do is kill the other gangs or die to the other gangs' to 'we spend a lot of our time fighting but that's fine, we don't die every day, and we aren't scared to go out on OUR OWN TURF because some middle be from the Sinners is going to walk down the street ghosting everyone they see because it's what is considered themely'.

-- S

GMs don't have time to puppet TERRA and protect ACME routes and stuff all the time, and we cannot do anything with TERRA PCs if they get permed all the time

This is precisely why a Ganger/Terra Economy focused around package delivery, drug trade, protection rackets, etc. would be hugely beneficial. It relies less on GM's and more on player grouping up together. Gangers will want to make sure packages are delivered because there is a direct correlation to there income. They will want to make sure no one dips or mugs people. It also gives the opportunity for outliers to exist who take advantage of people who play by the rules/treaty.

Is the idea of Terra/Ganger's shepherding immy package deliveries amongst other things on there turf really such a difficult concept? I recognize no or at least very few PC's took this initiative in the wake of the would-be mugging spree but it's not that hard to group up.

Gangs aren't gangs because they all wear the same color or have matching tattoos. Gangs are gangs because they have aligned interests. Give me people a reason to align besides stomping there guts in with NPC's and Oldbie's - I think it will take the game much farther.

Does this paragraph apply to the general creation of gangs as well?

As a brand new player, I have honestly not wanted much of anything to do with the gangs. I was not aware of the gang code, and my perception of the gangs was exactly what the gang code is trying to address. e.g. Being a ganger is a quick route to perma-death, there's no point in joining anything other than the biggest gang, and that there are plenty of 'older' characters out there who you stand no chance against.

I even heard a few immies talking about flipping things and bitching about how they got shorted by the fixer, then musing about how they need to demand a bigger cut. It really feels like this change juiced up the economy in a very cool way. Just wanted to relay that feedback.