The following OOC-Chat transcript is provided here because:
[+][OOC-Chat] Captain Miserable: There's a lot of great points that aren't going to be seen by a lot of people who play being made.
The recent-changes referred to here can be referenced in https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/new-game-features/
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: can we get more rent-able spaces that aren't apartments, per-se?
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: so we can get a ripper renting out like a garage or warehouse storage space to do installs and shit
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: there are short term rentals suitable for meeting locations.
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: without having to risk the location of their apartment
[+][OOC-Chat] Diego's Ghost: there's very little support for freelance rippers.
[+][OOC-Chat] Diego's Ghost: for a reason, i think?
[+][OOC-Chat] waddle says, "there is more now"
[+][OOC-Chat] beandip [to Diego's Ghost]: even with the new updates?
[+][OOC-Chat] Majjy majmas: what are cubes for?
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: nobody's going to lug a fucking medical table to a cube lmao
[+][OOC-Chat] beandip [to merry christmaether]: they do that in their apartments?
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: the cyber tools are whats needed for the most part.
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether [to beandip]: but why would a ripper want to risk the location of their apartment.
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: those are portable
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: oh dang, i didn't know that. disregard me
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: you rent a place and incorporate the cost into the procedure
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: it'll get better as we get the infections integrated into cyber surgery.
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: I really want folks to have a good chance of getting infections from poor hygiene surgeries.
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: can we add infections from sewers, too?
[+][OOC-Chat] Diego's Ghost: i almost forgot the update, they help
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: me too
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: Operating outside of an OR is prohibitively expensive.
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: if dumb fucks would charge for procedures instead of parts, you'd make more money.
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: And requires that you have a license and be legit.
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: i can't wait for rotdick from bad studdly installs
[+][OOC-Chat] Diego's Ghost: you wouldn't bring your triangulator to a meeting would you...?
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: There's no real way to do installs if you don't have a coded cyberdoc job or a working license.
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether nods in sourcell's general direction.
[+][OOC-Chat] Diego's Ghost: MAYBE if you do it in a permapad with buffed up security
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether [to sourcell]: that's what im talking about
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell [to Diego's Ghost]: Nah.
[+][OOC-Chat] Diego's Ghost: but moving all that chrome gear around is not a good IC decision
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: You still need things that require a license and I don't just mean the surgical tools.
[+][OOC-Chat] Diego's Ghost: ah, ok
[+][OOC-Chat] Diego's Ghost: i'm talking under the assumption you have all the consumibles.
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether [to sourcell]: yeah you need an actual operating table right?
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: Getting into IC info
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: alright alright am sorry. but my point is i would like if ripperdocs were able to rent out like a garage or storage unit that has all their operating shit in it so they can do illegal, high-risk installs
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: But if you want to illegally install cyberware, you need a license or someone who has one to get some things for you.
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: And those things are extremely expensive, and at that point you're paying extra money for a licensed cyberdoc to put their ass on the line to help an unlicensed cyberdoc steal their business.
[+][OOC-Chat] Diego's Ghost: i think there would be some benefit from streamlined sources of cybernetic consumibles for illegal rippers
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: they are purchasable from a frigging terminal, any further mechanics are left up to the community via ic means. :)
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: right now, you can coordinate your efforts through RP and the GMs. Most every location started life as a player with an idea for a business.
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether nods in sourcell's general direction.
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: I've always got hard nos from NPCs when I've tried that.
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: Something along the lines of, 'leave that work to the people with coded jobs'
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether [to sourcell]: and then it becomes a problem where cool, now ripperdocs can uninstall chrome, but you'd still need to go to a licensed doc for an install.
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: find a way to make it something the game doesn't already have.
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: I did.
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: someone has to risk something. :)
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: Johnny, maybe with the implementation of infections from bad installs, make it so dedicated OR's are marked as "sterile environments"?
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: Right but like
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: Then you're paying more money for back alley surgery than you would for the legit version.
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: Like a lot morr.
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: and any other place you do an install at has a chance of giving infections, but the chances get lower the more/better tools you have? but even with the best tools if you're doing an install in a fucking cube, you're still in a gross place
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: anything we add will compound it - finding the shady 'What Are Ya Buyin' merchant would not be more straight forward than whats feasible now.
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: And there's absolutely no benefit.
[+][OOC-Chat] Diego's Ghost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rif6sQ9JTHA
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: you said more straight forward, you didn't say cheaper.
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: It isn't either.
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether [to Diego's Ghost]: WHAT'RE YAH SELLIN
[+][OOC-Chat] Frisbee: http://sindo.me/BkqiOFAAB
[+][OOC-Chat] Frisbee: yer welcome
[+][OOC-Chat] beandip: I'm a bit behind or confused - the only obstacle to illegal installs is a room to do it in, isn't that right? Because cyber clinics are the only place where it's possible even with the right gear?
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: Basically all you can do right now is pay a legit cyberdoc to buy things from the store at full price and then sell them to you.
[+][OOC-Chat] beandip [to sourcell]: isn't this about rips?
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: but why would a legit doc do that?
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: because they would be getting rid of their own biz
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: You need extra things that a legit cyberdoc wouldn't need, as well, that are expensive and consumable.
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: thats not a topic for this channel. :)
[+][OOC-Chat] Majjy majmas: LEt's talk about boobs instead!
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: It's just not a viable role.
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether [to Majjy majmas]: boobs cool
[+][OOC-Chat] Captain Miserable says, "This would probably do better on bgbb."
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: meh
[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Jolly Johnny: leverage is about as far as I am willing to state here.
[+][OOC-Chat] beandip: Ooh!
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: it doesnt shake out that way
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: people dont cooperate with that kind of rp
[+][OOC-Chat] Saint Nicholas's Ghost from the FUTURE 2020: More cyber stuff for the cyber game, is always good.
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: you basically need a legit cyberdoc who is willing to totally subordinate their character to what the ripper doc wants to do in order to allow the ripper doc to operate at a major loss
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: doesnt make economic or plot sense for either party
[+][OOC-Chat] merry christmaether: Johnny, if you say we have a problem with players not taking risks, and then that the only way for ripperdocs to get around to installs is for a legit cyberdoc PC (a relatively low-risk role) to take a risk and set them up, we probably aren't ever going to see the growth of a role that will in-turn encourage the growth of more chrome. And I'm not trying to rip on you for this, trust me
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: If there were illegitimate ways to get supplies that made any kind of economic sense then it wouldn't be an issue.
[+][OOC-Chat] Captain Miserable: BGBB?
[+][OOC-Chat] Majjy majmas: I thought Johnny said this wasnt' a topic for here?
[+][OOC-Chat] Captain Miserable: There's a lot of great points that aren't going to be seen by a lot of people who play being made.
[+][OOC-Chat] Majjy majmas: OR did I Misunderstadn
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell [to Captain Miserable]: im not in the mood to spend like ten paragraphs explaining the problem and then have the first three replies either spill IC beans or totally fail to comprehend what I typed.
[+][OOC-Chat] Captain Miserable says, "That is unfortunately the cost of instigating change but I feel you."
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: Suffice to say I did the ripper doc thing and it's not really doable outside of some very narrow cases.
[+][OOC-Chat] Diego's Ghost: it may be better now because people need ripper docs to harvest chrome?
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: The new harvesting changes are good but re: installs theres a long way to go.
[+][OOC-Chat] Captain Miserable concurs, "Steps are definitely being made in the right direction but there still isn't a solid a good avenue where an unlicensed ripper has any merit against a licensed one with arguably one exception, I think."
[+][OOC-Chat] sourcell: Something that I think gets forgotten with certain roles too is that it's easy for one faction to completely dominate an industry just by like, sleeping with a single character or something.
[+][OOC-Chat] Captain Miserable head desks.
[+][OOC-Chat] Captain Miserable says, "Meh. Also true."