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  • ARIN chrome multi-skill expansion
  • To improve support for multi-discipline riggers

ARIN chrome multi-skill expansion
To improve support for multi-discipline riggers

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I kind of have a beef with the ARIN rigging chrome, as may have been evident from the patch notes discussion. Not because I don't think it's cool, but because what is sort of the ultimate rigging tool is right now basically a replacement for other skills (piloting/driving) using rigging ability... but not actually allowing for any robot control.

So it's a great way for pure riggers to have deep UE investment in their primary and get advanced support skills in the bargain, but if someone was or is already an advanced pilot or driver, rigging feels pretty bad to invest in because so much of its current powerful gameplay value (until more robot stuff is added) is duplicating the same skill checks without really adding much value if characters can already make them.

I guess the comparison I would make is if a TruSight used Systems knowledge to give characters firearm abilities in the bargain, while providing some cool functionality to guns that firearms users didn't get otherwise.

Now plenty of riggers rely on this chrome now for these support abilities, so I am not suggesting it get removed or anything like that, but I think it would be nice if it provided some benefit to riggers who are (or were already) expert pilots and/or drivers.

So my suggestion is the following, in some future uncertain date when there is dev time to add features:

+ Make the ARIN chrome a generic robot controller; and,

+ Make the vehicle rigging mechanic combine rigging and the relevant vehicle skill for ability rolls, in a similar fashion to how multiple stats are checked on those rolls.

Although additive skill rolls would be super powerful in other instances, the value of extremely high vehicle rolls is pretty low and I don't think there is a great danger of players spending hundreds of UE in both to get huge vehicle skill checks.

These changes would make rigging feel like a much better addition to characters that already have those support skills, and it would make the chrome much more useful in a wider variety of rigging circumstances to all sorts of characters.

By 0x1mm at Nov 30, 2022 12:19 AM
I kind of look at this like these chrome offshoots as attempts to circumvent the skillsoft chip after an update that's already neutured their value to the point where they almost can't be given away.

In any case, if chrome already does something a character can do, and it puts other characters on that character's level or above? Then they're keeping up with their peers, which is, now ironically, what the skillsoft slogan is.

By RatchetEffect at Nov 30, 2022 5:04 AM
I have to agree that I don't like the way the ARIN is implemented, but I will say that this is not simply an ARIN issue, but more of a Rigging as a skill issue broadly speaking. I feel that Rigging is by it's nature somewhat of a support skill however, there's examples of how rigging circumvents other skills beyond just the ARIN and vehicle control.

The question in my mind becomes: is the rigger issuing commands to a 'smart' device that is then executing the commands on their behalf, or is the rigger themselves controlling the device?

If the rigger is controlling the device, then there should be in addition to skill check.

If the rigger is simply issuing commands to the device that then executes on it's own, then the device should have a fixed and it simply be a skill check.

To Ratchet's point however, yes, Rigging has the potential to be Skillsoft 2.0 where you simply throw money at whatever skill gap problem you have and get results. Which is not ideal, IMHO.

By TalonCzar at Nov 30, 2022 6:30 AM
I don't think rigging was ever finished which is part of the dilemma here. I do agree with 0x1mm sentiment that the ARIN interface makes skills like piloting/driving seem less useful BUT I suspect there are a few pitfalls outside the obvious financial/cybernetic burden.

However, rather than alter the playing field as suggested above - I think a focus on less interfaced vehicles is appropriate. I.E. Paragliders, Skateboards, etc.

Personally, I'd love if salvage/disposable vehicles for combat much akin to the PopPop 6mm existed and weren't compatible with the ARIN interface, and I think that would be a great place to start.

By ReeferMadness at Nov 30, 2022 7:54 AM
Not all vehicles are compatible with ARIN and certain skillchecks with them have much harsher consequences than your average pilot given failures effect chrome and other things.

I am all for ARINs being used for some kind of connection to a bot mount for a vehicle, perhaps, but not as a standalone rigging controller just due to how they work currently IC. Would be neat if there were places IC (corps, perhaps) where you have to jack in to use bots, maybe due to extreme distance or the need for the neural connection versus inputted commands. I think just a normal controller being chrome, however, is much the same as why Quickterm chrome has been shot down in the past.

By Dawnshot at Nov 30, 2022 8:04 AM
Be that as it may I think in any situation where a rigging tool is making another type of skill check, it would be appropriate to roll both that character's rigging ability and their appropriate related skill for the check. This could actually make rigging considerably more useful than it is now overall, and open robots up to doing a lot more since those tasks would rely on clearing checks a player would have to make anyway.

This also opens the door to highly specialist technical bots, and potentially more capable combat bots with mounted weapons, without having a one-skill-does-it-all problem that could otherwise plague those implementations.

By 0x1mm at Nov 30, 2022 11:20 AM
I mentioned in XOOC how rigging and ARIN completely replaces the need for vehicle based skills, but was shot down.

It obviously need to include the vehicle skill in addition to the rigging skill, otherwise Why the fuck would you ever UE into driving or flying when you could do that AND get bots for free on top? This seems like the most common-sense and self-evident game balance 101 level shit imaginable.

By TalonCzar at Nov 30, 2022 11:26 AM
Why the fuck would you ever UE into driving or flying when you could do that AND get bots for free on top?

The same argument applies to skillsofts and I think the reasoning is serious detriments to being dependent on cybernetics and very real situations where such things can fail in your face.

By ReeferMadness at Nov 30, 2022 12:08 PM
Skillsofts are also capped to platinum, whereas ARIN converts skill at a ratio which is (in theory) much more powerful. Needless to say skillsofts also have a laundry list of further limitations and downsides and you can pair a skillsoft socket with an ARIN interface anyway, so it's not like they conflict to begin with.
By 0x1mm at Nov 30, 2022 12:29 PM
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