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Scopes and aiming at close range.

The way gun mods work on SD means that if you attach something to a weapon it's there to stay for good. This means that when you have to find out the hard way that attaching a scope to a gun is going to remove your ability to aim at someone on the same tile, it gets frustrating. We're not even talking anything that's mechanically beyond what you can do with any other weapon here, which is just using the aim command.

Not sure if this is intentional but it doesn't seem like it has to be. There are already a ton of downsides to using a scope and sniping even without this being a feature.

The inability to aim at close range does seem like it is a balanced consequence for being able to shoot at targets up to five tiles away, although I agree it is unpleasant to find this out when you have spent 25k+ on the modification you can no longer remove.

The better solution in my mind would be for the modifications to be removable by qualified persons, something which has been suggested as far back as in 2010 and has been suggested again over the years. The most recent thread in favour of it is this one.

Being able to shoot targets that far away is barely an actual possibility, which is why this downside doesn't make that much sense to me. I'm not going into all the intimate details on the board, but sniping really doesn't work like that
Double post, but need to clarify the purpose of this being in the problems section of the board.

The modification itself costs chy, the sniping aspect is broken ingame imho and on top of that you have to deal with the inability to aim with a weapon you spent money to upgrade. As a balancing measure it seems to go overboard a whole lot, especially if you consider that by the same logic the gun could be disabled at close range entirely.

Unless its recently broken, sniping works very well and this is indeed balance by making the sniper need to use the right weapon for the right job. It's forcing you to buy another gun on purpose.
The level of IC detail here is worrying. Please try to be less hyperspecific about IC capabilities.

While I understand the balance intended, maybe the ability to remove a mod (even destroying it in the process) would still be the right call. Some weapons are nigh worthless at range and a scope slapped on them can mean a 100k+ object having severely decreased functionality. Second-hand weapons are a thing as well, and finding out the gun you bought or got by other means having the mods you don't want on them (when guns are already severely limited in game compared to any other weapon class) means trying to hunt down another rare piece... and hoping it doesn't have mods slapped on it either.

Johnny. The problem I'm having here is that sniping has been overbalanced against. Sniping with anything but one gun is almost completely useless and now all guns are just as circumstantial as that one gun. It's not even as simple as hunting for another weapon because like HolyChrome said, some of these guns are extremely expensive and to have one of them ruined like this is not a minor expense.

In addition, the weapon that has the problem of now being binoculars with some bang remains that way forever.

Yet another double post. Further clarification that I don't think all guns should be superb at sniping. I just don't think a scope should remove the ability to aim at someone because chases on SD are already frustrating without the handicap.
Serious question from someone who doesn't know anything about guns:

How would you actually aim at someone close to you using a scope? Wouldn't the tiniest movement make the person out of your target range and nearly impossible to hit anyway? Much less how would you even find your target up-close?


You understand exactly what is going on. It is impossible to AIM at someone at close range with a scope.

My interpretation of this thread is that a lot of people learned that the hard way by spending lots of chyen and effectively ruining a weapon.

Therefore people are asking for the ability to remove weapon mods (scopes in this specific case).

The game rules do not currently allow people to remove weapon mods


It's a game and if we went by totally real world logic then attaching a scope to a gun would ruin the ability to even enter combat with it at close range. It just doesn't work as an explanation for something that takes away a vital feature over what amounts to zero mechanical benefit.

It's also the cyberpunk future, which means that I'm sure we could just say the scope has varying levels of zoom which allow for use of the aim command when not trying to snipe.

I'm extremely skeptical that this is needed. Besides being on the same page as Johnny (use particular weapon for particular job), even if it were made codedly possible to un-mod a sniper weapon, it wouldn't be something you'd just do in the middle of your Mexican stand-off.
I take it back, I do think that the ability to un-mod guns is called for. I just don't think it's called-for for the purpose of aiming with a sniper weapon at someone in the same room.
I'm fine with whatever solution is preferred, Bean. Whatever allows players to make proper use of weapons which aren't intending for sniping in the first place.
Letting weapon techs unmod them through the usual course of RP, seems exceedingly reasonable. The fact you can't unmod weapons seems....extremely bizarre. Even if it's a balancing issue, it seems a very strange way to go about it.
The crux of the argument seems to keep going back to "use a particular weapon for particular job."

Even holding to this, the RP process of finding a Weapons Tech, paying for them to remove (and destroy) a mod attached to a gun, thus turning it -into- a particular weapon still upholds this tenet while also creating demand/RP for weapons techs, allowing some flexibility/versatility, and still with a price tag attached without completely "ruining" a weapon because you didn't know it would gimp you in unexpected ways.

I don't think anyone's argued for the ability to aim a scoped weapon at someone in the same room. It's purely been arguing the ability to remove the scope (by some means) so you can.

I get that, I'm just saying that's the least reasonable reason for wanting unmod to be possible.
Thanks for the answers!
It's crazy how overwhelmingly incorrect a lot of these points are, as well as how silly it is for there to be only one type of 'scope' for firearms. While I can tell some of you have never used these things, that argument is ultimately moot. However, the solution is simple; allow trusight lasers to override the scope/aiming problem, in addition to being allowed to remove these dumb scopes.
Fris does have a really good point there. If a weapon has a scope and a trusight on it then why not allow the trusight to dictate whether or not you can aim at close range?
I'd like to bring this up again. Being able to remove a weapon mod would be a good idea and a much needed addition to rectify mistakes you can make when modding something.

If there are balancing concerns about this, then just make it so that the removed mod is destroyed in the process.

This is how it is. Mirage coded this.