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Money/Item/Pay/Time Investment
Didn't want to derail idea thread.

So I've been thinking, and I've been trying to do lots of shit, lots of shit in the game, and there appears to be one major issue. Money, but it's not so basic as the amount of money I have in the bank or the amount of money in my pocket, it's more of a, and this is hard to word, but a goalpost issue I guess I would say?

So we all know that stores are for suckers for the most part, I learned that day one talking on the sic, and I get that they are there for immediate consumption so they cost a fortune. However, I also have checked a few things via Fixer (I hate to use this word because I'm sure some of the folks saying they are fixers are straight posers) and found them to be pretty heavily discounted, but still a rough pill to swallow when you make 100-300 cred per crate, and can only do 3ish a day from each provider. To be honest the greet crates aren't even worth doing with the delay and the maglevs in my honest opinion.

So again, as many folks have said I've heard, it's a long term game, you're supposed to work for long periods of time to accomplish something, whether that's buying a fancy outfit from the store or a crazy technical piece of equipment right?

But I look at games as games right, and I'll RP with you for hours if I can without a single thing going on. But then the gamer side comes out okay. I'm like alright, I'm essentially playing a MUSH now, I'm not really actually doing anything but learning about joe cabbies day (No offense to cabbies, just an example) and the random time they threw up from X and Y can only go so far right?

So my question is, is this game striving for more RP over substance, more emote and pose over actual activity than mechanics? And that's not bad if it is, but I would ask is there a way to maintain that level of story and immersion without boring folks to tears? Without forcing long stints of idleness on folks?

Now some of you have been here for YEARS, and you've grown used to it, and I'm not badmouthing anything about the style and care you put into your RP and your positions in the game. But I also believe that this is ultimately about having fun and from some of your game policies and openness to allow things like sexual orientation and neutral options, I have to believe that you care about all views and not just the established ones correct?

I am impressed by everything I've seen so far of the game, from the roleplay to the mechanics except for one thing, the limits on activities. For example, my current character hasn't ran a single crate today, because he's been busy doing stuff for the most part, meeting folks, looking into things and that great, this has been one of those spurts of activity that you speak of. But what about when there isn't that?

I've also sat in a bar/cube/insertlocationhere for hours madly trying to find something to do, all the bars have "No party going on." My crates are done, people aren't answering their phones, and sic credit makes private messaging prohibited.

This is really where I feel you could flesh out your game and make it much more appealing, have shit for folks to do. Even if it's not money related, if I had something that helped me as a character, say places to forage for trash, and collect and bring to a chute for WCS recycling to pay down my sic bill.

Possibly a corpse collection spot that folks could search through for stupid little non-valuable things, low end clothing ala the tables at the gates maybe with a super low chance to find something actually worth something.

You have busy work instituted at the bases level, which is SHI, and it works, but it's boring as shit and requires nothing from the player.

I don't want any of this to come off as "Your game sucks" but I do feel that to say to new players who are struggling and want to put hours upon hours into your game, "Tough shit, this is a slow burn game." isn't the right answer either.

However, I get that all this needs balance, all this needs consideration, you can't just upend the whole system. But I think that the responses I've got, while not vindictive at all, have sorta equated to, "This is how it is, learn to adapt your fun to it" and I see SO much potential to this game.

I dunno, I'm rambling? Why is that, because ain't shit to do in game...

I'm pretty new, but I'm finding endless stuff to do ingame. I don't even have time to do what I want to.

What you're looking for is obvious stuff that'll easily pay out. If you make your own opportunities with RP, be creative, and think outside the box, I think you'll get further. But that requires a very different mentality than just "drive towards progression."

I say this all as respectfully as possible and I don't mean to give any offense to you.

But, I also have so much to do and so much going on that I can't find enough time to think long and hard about my future plans because I am too busy dealing with things as they come up.

I understand your frustration, but it's starting to come across as trolling.

I came here after reading really bad reviews on Reddit, and I like to try to give people the benefit of the doubt, and I have to say that Reddit was way wrong about a lot of things.

The game is a lot of fun, and there's quick turn around in terms of gameplay value with moderate effort and time put into it, in my experience so far.

I think it all boils down to your own expectations and tempering them for the type of game you're playing. If you're not trolling with your multiple posts, then I would take some time to reflect on what people have explained about the game, and maybe try to temper your expectations.

There's a lot of fun to be had.

I'm not attempting to troll, it just seems like the general census is, "Deal with it" when you're told your bored, and I would invite you to follow me around on a play session, I run all over this bitch looking for interaction.
Your goal as a new player should be to convince others to invest Money/Items/Pay/Time in you. That is what creates the most meaningful sindome experience. Worry less about gaming the system and more about gaming the people.
I think you're worrying way too much about numbers. Just settle in and have fun, the game's not about how much money you make. Money and items just expand what roleplay you can create, but the roleplay is up to you. You're doing alright.
is this game striving for more RP over substance, more emote and pose over actual activity than mechanics?

Well...

If that's what you're calling "substance", then the answer is, not exactly.

Here's a quote from the front page of the website: "You don't decide your character's success or failure, the game does. Most everything you do will depend on the stats and skills your character possesses. This includes understanding languages, perception, combat, and a vast array of other things you can do." This makes clear that mechanics are important. But even then - here's from the front page of the "Help" section: "On Sindome, we focus on the feeling and enjoyment of a good roleplaying session." But even then - here's from the Help / Game Mechanics page: "Roleplaying will always come first. The expression we use is 'The code's purpose is to support RP.'"

So they go together, the mechanics and the RP. It's not one or the other.

you're supposed to work for long periods of time to accomplish something - Uhh, sort of. I suppose that you could say that you're "supposed" to, it's more like you should expect to unless you've achieved something that makes it not take so long. Buying clothes or gear is a goal, but becoming a character with access to clothes and gear is a different category of goal. The first takes time if your only income is the stock noob jobs. The second takes time because you have to RP your way into it. This isn't the kind of game where someone rolls in and says, hey, do you have room for a fixer? A real one, not a poser. Or a cyberdoc. Or a Street Judge.

It's true that those all require a level of mechanics achievement, but the mechanics alone won't get you there. RP is what gets you there.

Another major difference between Sindome and your average MUSH is the concept of consent. In many MUSHs, your character can do anything that other players or the MUSHmasters OOCly agree they can do. You're all on the same side - players against gamemaster scenarios with PvP conflict strongly dis-incented if not outright taboo. In Sindome, those agreements have to be 100% IC. So you have to work those IC relationships to earn it. You can see how this can take a long time, and you can see how it demands that you roleplay effectively, not just idly, and. you can see how it's utterly different RP than someplace where all players and GMs consent to IC happenings.

(I'm only talking about consent from this point of view. Don't take this as me saying anything against help forbidden.

Doing crate runs/working the factory are sort of the utmost lowest form of money-making in Sindome.

You should make friends who have money or get a job at a company to get ahead. Basically, anything but automated jobs are the best way of making money in Sindome. Its more about "hustling" and making connections, both monetarily and ICly. It helps not to worry about the money and more about what you want to do with the money. There is more likely than not more than one way to accomplish what you want than simply being rich.

Viewing chyen as the "end-all" goal is probably the problem here. I know that (especially early) you need to pay rent, etc., and money is required.

However, I've rolled a few hobos and had A BLAST with them. Sleeping in the streets, begging, etc. I'd say shift your focus from money towards having a character that's fun to RP.

SD's strength is in the journey. If you're having trouble making your mark or finding things to do, network with other immies and vent those frustrations with them. Band together to make your mark.

Lastly, you're going to be making WAY more money and having WAY more fun if you're getting your cash through illicit activities. You just have to worm your way into them. Prove to others that you're crazy enough to try anything and stick around. Sidle up to some powerhouses with that attitude. You'll soon be strapped for time!

Relatively new player here. Even super active players are going to have downtime sometimes. It's inevitable and it's also totally okay. While yes, there's PCs on at all hours, some plots need time to breathe and develop - and when given that space, they can also be incredibly satisfying in hindsight having given them the time to marinate.

If you find yourself in those moments where it feels like there is nothing to do, I would suggest thinking of ways to generate RP for others and then letting those ideas/plots/threads gestate naturally. Some will lead places, some won't, but either way it's about the journey rather than the destination.

Illicit activities I feel needs more documentation. Examples and the like.

I still don't know if they are just puppet-requests or notes driven.

Not a troll at all to me... Consider the massive timesink the game is, it's not too much to ask for an easier time and gettin more out if you put more in even as bonus. Spent 2 weeks getting dipped during 1 character grinding annd struggling in mix and you lose all build up in one moment. If you enjoy trying to go against the grain or being a loner, expect your character's Losses and roll with some punches. Maybe try a different type of play if it's boring though because there's no shortage of shit to do
I strongly encourage to set yourself apart, both in goals and styles (character wise, etc) from others. Everyone can play the hitman with a conscience against women and children (for example), but making your character a street food vendor with a secret or whatever else definitely helps get you into niches because you're then considered unique and able to fill multiple roles. It gives you multiple rings of RP to be in. Find a side hustle. Do jobs for people, have people do jobs for you, find whos reliable (for you), get info on people, keep an ear open.

There is always money, gear, etc if you make connections. It can be slow the first few weeks. It can also be incredibly chyen-packed. It all depends on the RP at the time, the older players doing whatever they're doing. Who you meet, how you meet them, how you make yourself useful. All up to chance, but always available.

Illicit activities I feel needs more documentation. Examples and the like.

Now we're getting somewhere!

However, this is precisely the thing to find out through RP. We're not a "here's the playthrough" type community.

If you don't know, your character doesn't know either. So have your character find out. And if they can profit from documenting it, hey, you're home free.

^^

If you don't know how to do a thing or the process, find someone or multiple someones who does IC. You'll get RP, probably money or similar, and the knowledge to then build one.

So my question is, is this game striving for more RP over substance, more emote and pose over actual activity than mechanics?

Yes.

There is a consistent policy that coded mechanics generally should avoid generating chyen that isn't subject to the weekly automated earnings cap. This isn't always the case, but it's the norm.

There are jobs that are highly activity and mechanics focused though, rather handily they're often some of the best jobs in the game.

I guess I just see money as an avenue to experience more the game. And maybe that makes this too primitive of a thought and not accurately expressing my issue.

If I had JUST enough money to pay my cube and buy a beer or two, I'd be happy.

However, the way the game is built, IT seems to focus a reliance on flash. And all the "busy" work is flash based.

That's why I was saying maybe something to keep us busy mechanically wouldn't be a horrible thing. When I wander to random bartenders and go, Where's the party and they say, fucking nowhere, I shouldn't have to cold call, private sic, every one of you to find something to do, I'm sorry I shouldn't.

Some of the best jobs in the game are those which give you access to information. There are crazy Big Brother type roles available, crazy technology that you can access with or without a legit gig, people willing to sell any crazy secret for chyen.

I mean, money works too, but using your job's data access to enhance your payroll salary is going to be more rewarding, RP wise as well as money wise, than just trying to get more legit pay.

What everyone else says about cash not being an endgoal is true. If you're financially motivated, it can feel like a drag to do menial jobs. BUT if you're the kind of person who plays to your character's strengths and weaknesses, gets into trouble, and profits off others, then you'll start building your character's story and their legend (whether it be godly or a name people throw around as a joke). Talk to people, commit crimes, make secretive alliances, and just plain exploit people who think you're a new dumb immy who hates crates.

In fact, that this attitude that you're feeling, and bring it in character. Complain to everyone that you see that crates are a drag. Weasel your way into their stories and soon enough you'll have one of your own. 💙💜

I totally get that, but I'm mostly talking about the newbie experience. I understand that even IF things were coded to do, digging through a junkyard for recyclables, etc. That after a few months you wouldn't be caught dead doing it.

But I think the game isn't as big as it should be because this beginning newbie period sucks a big one.

Make there be something to do. Start a party. Use your skills to get a crowd going. Sell your services. Or find someone who can, and offer to help. Just because there isn't a party at a location where a bartender will tell you there is one, doesn't mean there isn't something happening.
*take this attitude IC.

Complain about the rent being too high at the New Rose. Share your woes to someone at a bar. Follow them home like a lost puppy--

You fill in what happens afterward. 🔪

It is scary how fast you guys allude to murdering your friend haha.
Well, they have to die so they won't remember what you did to them.

;)

What would someone at the end of their ropes do? How desperate is your character for just one more good meal? Get into that mindset and play it out.

When I first played, I was like you. I tried to look for RP and found none for maybe two or three weeks or so. I ran crates. I didn't get involved. And then something happened. I just went for broke and threw myself to the wolves. Told myself I wouldn't go home unless I got into a plot or dead. I got all up in everyone's biz an the bar and talked my way into a plot that made it so I'd never have downtime again.

@Volo

Sindome is a game about player versus player conflict. If you are conflict adverse and looking for things to do that don't involve conflict, you are going to have a hard time.

I say this as someone who is conflict adverse. I just got a talking to from the staff today because I am relying too heavily on NPCs for money. I'm still trying to figure out what to do about that. The "we're all in this together" mentality doesn't seem to be compatible with the theme of the game.

That said, I find most of my enjoyment here from role-playing in a dystopian, cyberpunk-esque environment. I want to experience the world so to speak. I could care less about being the best, wherher individually or as part of a "winning" faction.

As others have alluded to, if you enjoy the theme and enjoy role playing, you will find a home here. This is very much a social community, even if most of the socialization involves scheming against and ultimately screwing each other over.

It's also worth keeping in mind that the income ranges between player characters are not really that significant in general. If one day you got a few 1-2 kay tips and ran a few crates, you probably made more than most of the characters you met that day.

More established characters are often not really making that much more chyen, they've just accrued more stuff over time and have more passive income so they don't have to run around for it -- usually because their roles are so demanding on their time as it is.