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Crime discussion

So as not to derail the idea in the Ideas forum.

I still have questions on crime. I've seen multiple times Staff on OOC when I was still on it say, Commit more crimes.

But it seems like to do that you require ooc assistance to even attempt it by said staff.

So short of me codedly running up and grapple dude, dragging him physically down the street towards the lev while he's screaming for help in person and on the sic, which is doomed to fail because judges every two steps.

I'm confused as to what you mean, or is it just an anarchy type thing. Go shoot/kill someone to stir up RP?

Or do you mean crime like I plan a bank robbery or something crazy like that? But if I do that it's going to take GM interaction and I thought the whole point of the game was to go after players?

So on that vein, I target Joe corpie, me grabbing him/beating him, killing him gains me nothing, so why go through the risk vs reward to do it even if I codely can?

This is where I'm confused on crime and have asked through multiple avenues why and how but got nothing but pointed at a help file or board post about crimes you DON'T have to Xhelp for.

Why would I attempt a crime without a chance of an upside?

I'm totally down for trying to commit a crime, just don't know why I would ever bother with the way things "appear" to work.

Volo.

Your best bet to figure out how all this stuff works is to go and experiment. It can be a fun ride figuring out what your character can and cannot do, when in the correct environment for it. Find a combat role and an IC mentor experienced enough to show you the ropes. (Gangs are excellent for this)

Why would I attempt a crime without a chance of an upside?

Doesn't the fact that both ICly and OOCly you keep hearing that crime pays tell you that there is a chance of an upside? More often than not?

I suggest finding IC mentors to show your character some ways it's done.

Why would I attempt a crime without a chance of an upside?

The upside is FUN!

+999 for DF reference. Losing is !!FUN!!
Please don't derail my thread and get it locked.
They're not trying to derail, Volo. They're drawing a parallel between the difficulty and hardship of Dwarf Fortress, and Sindome.

Why do people in real life commit crimes? High risk, high reward: often motivated by desperate circumstances. It's best to stop thinking about SD from the "gamey/win" angle and drive from the "RP angle". Your character is likely poor, living in Red. They can barely afford rent, food, or money for clothes. They're getting dipped trying to run the straight and narrow on crates. What do they do?

They MIGHT decide to say fuck it. I have a 10% chance of getting away with a mugging at x location. I'd have a 50% chance if I can get a friend help, and with more friends and plotting, maybe a 60% chance. Even if YOU know OOCly that you've got a 90% chance of getting caught up, you can still try it. You can still have a bad-ass scene where you're trying to rob someone and getting caught. You can still have a bad-ass scene where you spit in the face of a Judge before your head gets blown off.

Maybe you come out of the vats with a reputation as someone who's willing to try some shit. Maybe people will reach out to you for further jobs based on that reputation. Or maybe you'll pull it off and make more in an hour than you had in a week.

The "winning" in SD is RP'ing a character that you enjoy creating, and making fun scenes for yourself and others. As you said "Stirring shit up to create RP". Some of the best RP'ers are the IC assholes who screw everyone else over to get them to band together to conquer them. A lot of them leave clues so that people can gravitate towards them. This is an OOCly "bad" play from a "play to win" standpoint, but for SD it's great. More plot, more reputation, more people involved.

As everyone has said, there isn't an OOC "How to crime handbook". As with most things in SD, you need to find someone IC to tell you what you can pull off. It can be frustrating because it's so unlike other games, but at the same time, it drives really cool mentorships IC massively. Find someone with a lot of money IC, or who at least looks successful, and show that you want to do some crime. Ask them what kinds of targets there are, and how easy they are to hit. Chances are, after they've had you prove yourself a bit, they'll send you in the right direction. They can explain ICly (and to some extent, on local OOC, for topside) how crimes are typically accomplished.

Try to shift your focus to enjoying RP and scenes, and away from success in terms of materials. There are people who play super safe, only cashing paychecks, never doing crime. They end up with all sorts of toys that they bought, but no one has any idea who they are. Why would they?

They're busy talking about how bad-ass the mixer with nothing but a pair of brass balls and an empty pistol managed to hold up someone for all their pocket money.

^ This. Fully, emphatically, this.
Crime is the lifeblood of SD.

There's an assumption being made that crime naturally involves the kill verb. This is categorically incorrect.

Smuggling, Embezzling, Fraud, Spying/Ratting, Thievery, Burglary, Treason, Arson, Duress, Terrorism- none of these things require you to type 'Kill X.'

Crime is how you should be making your 'real flash,' not jobs. Jobs pay your rent, maybe make you a little bit of trickle income. Crime should almost always be aimed at players, or involve other players if you want it to be a successful and lasting engagement.

You're going to suck at it to start, you're going to get caught doing it, and you're going to have to live with the consequences. Everyone has to do these things at some point in their character's progression if they want to be involved in any serious plotting. Staff tells people to go out and do these things regularly because slice of life and barRP don't meaningfully drive the plot for the game as a whole. Which isn't to say that those things are bad, simply that they don't tend to ripple outwards or leave a wake as large as other plots do.

As for what you can do and how to go about doing it? That's all things you have to figure out ICly.

First off, I'd like to preface this with a disclaimer. I love the game, I'm having a lot of fun, I am not trying to change the status quo as much as I am a little fuzzy on why somethings are done certain ways and I strive for a better understanding. I've seen some people get really upset in other threads to some feedback, and I hope that I do not upset anyone with my observations here.

-------------

There's been something that I've been mulling over a bit in my head and it's the way SIC is handled and I have this notion that the feelings and impressions that people get from the SIC could possibly lead them to form their apprehension with making larger moves with crime on Gold and such.

As an example, I understand that SIC ambience is supposed to be constant chatter with millions upon millions of thoughts cluttering up the SIC information highway.

However, I've noticed that the way people treat it, and I have likely been guilty of this myself to some degree, is as if just 50 or 60 people at a time can see it. If you say one comment about one organization, it feels almost guaranteed they will respond if they're online. People don't seem to allow some things to just flutter by as if the SIC was simply too crowded to be bothered to take offense to every little thing said.

I see this with Judges too, Judges will react to every little anti-authoritarian comment that is muttered, as if they could possibly keep the other 70 million talking heads from doing the same thing, I am no expert clearly, and I could be way wrong, but the number of Judges to the general population, even if this was automated likely shouldn't be able to keep up with dissent on SIC, right?

I do understand that reacting to these types of things does give you RP hooks, it allows you to immediately generate reasoning for conflicts, no matter how minor or how severe, it's up to you how much offense you take at anything that is said.

However, I am not sure I understand that to be holistically beneficial if it suppresses a lot of voices and makes people avoid trying to appear outwardly aggressive.

I could see the SIC as that neutral ground to help nurture conflict and aggressiveness between players, instead of yet another medium for authoritarians to silence everyone who would dare.

I think we all understand that not all players are up to the challenge in engaging in direct conflict with others whether that be combat or vocal/verbal/thoughtful conversation. But they may be trying to play characters who are, and if every aspect of the game is always met with an immediate warning of consequences, bounties, and fines, they may never really feel comfortable spreading their wings and flourishing in a role they'd like to try.

I think the average player should be able to say Saedor Krupp is poop without a high level employee taking time out of their busy schedule to threaten to make their life a living hell.

Part of me doesn't fully understand why a Corporate Citizen would even bother to acknowledge the opinions of a nobody Mixer either, especially if they believe that Mixer to be an immigrant.

In summary, I think the SIC sometimes makes the game world feel tiny, and that really goes against the content of the help files on ambience and respecting the game's NPC population. I think this plays a very large role in how people can foresee, or predict their crime will be reacted to, with laser like focus, and they get stuck in a loop for waiting for that right time.

I know that the whole journey is supposed to be fun, and I think it is personally, but I also think that it's easy to say that when you're sitting from a privileged position, and not punching up all the time so it's important to try to empathize as much as possible with other side of that, the person trying to punch up, to make a rep for themselves, other than simply being a failure, being reminded of it all the time on SIC, and potentially feeling unable to respond on SIC.

I do agree with the sentiment by Reefer to go out there and do it and participate, of course, but I like to try to put myself in other peoples shoes, and when I do, this is what I come up with.

Thank you if you took the time to read this, and again, I don't mean to offend or single anyone out!

I'd like to see a corp create a staff position equivalent to the social-media monitors companies have today.

Make it that one person's (or department's) job to react to the most deserving comments, and make it every other employee's responsibility to let them instead of taking it into their own hands.

There's many other avenues than SIC that you can pursue this with. I don't know why people seem to always default to it, when it has the obvious consequences.

There's very little interaction to be had, both ways, when all someone does is use SIC as their main source of antagonism. If you find you're not getting mileage from it, get creative.

@beandip

That position already exists lol

@beandip

Doesn't this very position exist for every corporation already?

I can only think of one PC offhand who seems to obviously perform this role, and it's not actually in their job description.

And the second part is 100% absent, other than people who get consequences for wildly egregrious fuckups.

I think limited pubSIC to one role per corporation would diminish RP.
I understand the Corporations have control over their property and can use deadly force as if they were Judges themselves until they step foot onto City property.

But what about that gives them the ability to incite violence?

If it's said by a mixer "I kinda expect someone to shoot someone." on a Live TV broadcast, and that gets attention from a Judge.

And someone from any Corporation says straightforwardly or even veiled that they will murder someone, without specifying in self defense as a matter of their job description on their corporate property, then why isn't it treated the same way?

I understand the Judges work for the Corporations and I understand that there's events that stage Mix versus Corporate Citizens, but, if I think about it, it kinda makes more sense that the Judges would want to prevent further outright antagonizing of the massively overpopulated lower levels that could result in a very hard to contain mass right.

I am trying to think in terms of what makes sense given the context of the theme and the ambience of the city, much less in what you'd expect out of the existing player character population.

I don't think the answer is simply, "If SIC doesn't work for you, try something else." That doesn't feel constructive.

That would be theme, Andromeda. You should ask these questions ICly!
I am not sure questioning the application of IC methods that appear in the face of the theme would be something I could ask ICly and expect an answer that makes sense in the context of this discussion, yet I took your advice and I tried, and as I expected, I got a response that was IC for my character, but spoke nothing of significance to explain why SIC seems to be used in a small-world manner.

I believed this to be the case because this isn't a question you ask ICly, In my opinion, it is an OOC observation of IC actions and should be discussed from an OOC perspective.

I did try though, and I appreciate your advice.

A straightforward crime you could commit without xhelping is pickpocketing.
Extort someone.