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Clothing that Effects Stats/Skills
Not really new

We have had the ability for some time now (though I just figured out we did tonight when researching doing this exact thing) to make clothing effect your stats and skills.

Some of you may know that when you pick up a minigun it effects your agility / dodge since it's such a big weapon.

Well, I've wanted to add stuff like that to armor for awhile now.  I've only just started modding specific clothing to give benefits and penalties.

I started with Xo5.  As makes sense, wearing a helmet should reduce your perception.  It now does.

Wearing that armor, regardless of how high-tech and flexible, is going to reduce your movement speed.  It now does.

The effects are cumulative.  The more pieces of Xo5 you wear, the more penalties to your agility you get.  It's not a HUGE amount, but it should make armors that are not as bulky (and therefor, that soak up less damage) a more popular commodity.

It also brings a more tactical sense to what you wear.

Are you going out on a mission that's going to require you jumping across loads of rooftops?  Perhaps something more lightweight and flexible then Xo5 is what you want, so you don't go plummeting to your death.

Are you facing a foe who is slower, but is in really good physical condition?  You don't need to worry about speed as much, so you should consider Xo5.

I will be modifying various armors and clothing over time.

This also allows us to create new armors.  I know a specific player designed some bio-armor that was supposed to be lightweight.  Perhaps this armor actually improves your speed, while offering less agility?

These are just thoughts, but look for some changes in the way your existing armor works.  Especially the good stuff.

We are working on new types of armor that have different bonuses and penalties.  In the end, mixing and matching may end up being what many people do.. which can lead to some potentially interesting results.

Oh, and don't just think penalties.  Bonuses are important too.  Also, don't just think COMBAT stats.

Shrouds now FUCK UP your charisma.  No one likes a shrouded person.  They are non-descript and un-unique.  If no one knows who you are, and can't see you, your body or your face, your appearance can't have a positive effect.

Helmets, shrouds and other items that are worn on the face can have a negative impact on your perception as well.  As they should.  If you're wearing a helmet or even a hoodie.. You can't see from your peripherals.

But, let's consider corpie clothing.  We could make nice clothing, well tailored stuff (non player made for now, at least), have a POSITIVE effect on your charisma.

Powered armor. Nuff said. :D

Frank: "And he shall be called 'Tank.'"

Igor: "Tank? What the fuck is that supposed to mean?"

Frank: "Well... see? He's a tank. Impenetrable, indestructible, powerful."

Igor: "Tanks don't walk on legs."

Tank: "Mooooan...."

Frank: "Hrm... I see your point. Well! Nothing a nuclear battery and some hydraulics won't fix!"

I have mixed feelings about Power Armor. For one, I think very strong armor combined with some cybernetics is the low-end equivalent...Plus once you cross into the boundary of power armor you're getting into some more reminiscent of a vehicle.

When we have vehicle combat that can coincide with player combat, power armor would have a more appropriate place. On that day, Piloting and Driving become badass.

Regarding armor - I think if armor offers benefits, it should be -STRONGLY- incorporate tailoring. This is an opportunity for tailors to foothold themselves in the economy. By providing a service useful by players - modifying stat effects on armor.

We should introduce the equivalent of ballistic mods to armor. Some to lighten at the expense of armor resistance, some to make armor particular strong against certain weapon types, perhaps even modifications to existing object that add functions like: time, gps, thermo, nightvision, scanning, etc. Of course with electronic modifications electro_tech might also come of us.

Also, did Johnny ever finish that clothes dying machine? It'd be useful item of the trade.

Not sure about the clothes dryer.

I don't think power armor is something we will be investing time into in the near future, as Reefer said, we would need to create machine combat before we did that.

As for tailoring.. I don't know that modding of armor is something we will see any time soon.

The reason that we don't allow tailors to modify armor, or any kind of clothing that isn't made from dynafiber is the bloat.

Right now, custom clothing is responsible for a lot of the bloat in the game.. because they have to have custom messages for @worn and @descriptions and all that.

The way that properties work on the moo is that if you have an object, say a Protek Codepiece, and it defines 10 properties, and then that codpeice has 10 children, those 10 children all define those 10 properties as well, but, if they are all the same as the parent (IE: are never changed) then they take their cues from the parent object.. and don't actually define the property themselves.

Meaning you don't have 100 properties (10 objects with 10 properteis) you have 10 objects that inherit the props from their parent and that takes up much less space.

If one of those props on the child is edited that child now defines that property and that takes up space.


What I am looking for are ideas as to what generic clothing (clothing that is not player made, IE: Nexus, Protek, Du-Wear, etc) should have what attributes.

I've already taken care of some of the corpie clothing, as well as Protek helmets reducing pcp, all of the Xo5, rolexes, umm.. and prolly some other stuff.

What other items that can be worn should have stat boosts / reductions?

This idea, which has a lot of merit in itself, really reduces the chance of tailors making an IC living. Hear me out. If a player has a choice of buying a system generated article of clothing which has direct benefits on stats and actions within the game, whether that be for charisma, protection, action etc, they will take that option over player made clothing. I would. We see so many people walking around in Xo5 armour for this reason; not because it is fashionable, but because it is has practical benefits. This reduces player tailoring to other players being nice to them rather than -needing- them because non-player clothing isn't as good. In saying that, there was nothing in the game that meant a higher value piece of clothing produced by a player had better results for charisma or any other stat/skill (relying on value of clothing is not a real option either as that is underpinned by a skill level, not what it looks like...old garbage bag pants created by high skill worth more than tailored silk suit, etc)

I understand the code issue in all of this, and, this work may pave the way for player generated clothing to have actual code advantage in this regard, but at present it might reduce their prospects.

We also have the fine line of charisma for corpies and mixers. Mixers have different tastes but there are charisma benefits in the mix just the same as gold/green/blue, but a mixer isn't going wear the same clothes.

I think nocturnal makes a -VERY- good point. Perhaps we should be promoting tailored clothing by having it offer stat bonuses vs. many pre-generated ones that have negatives.

However, the moobloat factor is a dangerous one. Is there a way we could promote the replication of tailored items by saving them? Maybe by having tailored items provided by stores and added as momento items.

There's also the possibility of making different "versions" of dynafiber. I've long thought SD should offer a wide variety of materials that offer different respective armor bonuses and come at various prices. Of course, tailoring more advanced armor would require higher skill and so on and so forth.

Then you could compute the pros and cons of said peice of armor by its material and @coverage when it is @finalized.

I think the mixer/corpie style barrier is just that...A STYLE barrier. If you were a bullet proof vest. You're wearing a fucking bullet proof vest. Toleration of that stuff is based on IC encounters on a typically more intimate scale then simple game dynamics. Certain highly prices dress items with no armor value should offer some kind of benefit as opposed to there similarly priced armored companions.

I'm gonna have to go ahead and say that I agree with the tailors getting into this action... as of right now, there isn't much reason for players to bother with buying items from tailors, and as Reef put it, this gives them an opportunity to really get a foothold. I also understand the bloat issue though. I don't think anyone wants to trade slower gameplay for anything really, but I think this is an opportunity to stimulate the economy, I'd be up for finding some kind of middle ground, a compromise if you will.. I just think it'd be worth it. I wouldn't say that about just anything either. Anyways that's my thoughts on that side of it. As for the other gear and what stats should be altered by it....  I think du-wear is lighter and should reflect that through agl bonuses, I think that protek gear should prolly have at least a small negative effect on endurance and agl, being that it's thicker and heavier stuff..  it could also get a better armor rating, I don't know what the current armor ratings of anything is though so it may already be at a good level. I think mirrorshades should definitely boost cha, and maybe lower pcp..  I think gloves should help with agl too, in the sense that they offer better grip to assist in climbing and such... just a few thoughts from me.. take em or leave em
No reason for players to buy items from tailors? �I disagree. �What about the fact that you get bad ass looking, unique clothing?

That has, and always will be the main reason for custom tailored clothing. �Why do players go to tattoo artists? �Because they want something awesome. �Same as the reason they go to tailors. �Bad-ass, custom clothing is a trademark of all characters that want to make a name for themselves.

I dare anyone playing this game longer then 3 years to tell me they don't know about certain characters Red Trenchcoat?  Or anothers Du-wear Duster or Synth-Snake Trenchcoat.�

How about Du-wear in general? �A clothing line created by a character (mine, before I was an admin) with no tailoring skill that RP'd having bought his Duster, shirt, pants, and eyepatch from a mysterious tailor (since it wasn't IC that he had made the clothes himself) and started taking orders for the items until and admin noticed and decided Du-Wear was the next Nexus.

What about L.D Apparel? Or clothes made by the infamous Nicademaus Frasier himself? �Mittens for the winter?

Some of my best RP memories are about clothing and their creators and the things we would do to get our prized garments back after we died a vicious death. �Fuck your armor, fuck your sword or gun, it's the leather armguards made from dead Agent hyde that really matter.

Those sentential words said, I do agree, players should be able to get in on the action. �I forget to mention in my previous post, my intentions.

I think that players with a good enough Artistry skill (which is used for tailoring) should have the ability to create clothing that modifies certain stats. �Perhaps not in an armored fashion, at least at first, but definitely charisma. �

Say you are an uber-tailor, you should be able to create clothing that is at the height of fashion. �That clothing should have a positive effect on the characters that wear it. �

A silk dress, a set of lingere, a pair of leather gloves, a dress shirt, a stylish leather duster. �I want to, and plan to, allow tailors, when they @finalize a piece of clothing, to decide if said clothing should have a positive or negative impact on certain stats.

Should this dress shirt boost someones charisma? �Should the arm guards you fashioned from a �dead Judges skin have a negative impact on the person who wears thems charisma, so as to strike fear into the hearts of his or hers enemies?

Charisma would be a start, then perhaps perception, even strength or endurance (to give a boost, as if with armor).

We most likely wont make the clothing itself armored, though it could effect stats that have their own effects on how much damage is taken.

I will hopefully be implementing this soon. �Those who create clothing with no tailoring skill will, as would be IC, unless an admin steps in, be creating UGLY clothing. �The description might be glamorous, but with no skill, it will have an automatic negative impact on charisma. �

As your skill increases you will have a positive impact on charisma, and as it gets even better, have the choice of if it should impact a stat at all.

That's my plan.

What do you think?

That, my friend, is exactly what I was looking for. Maybe I should have worded my comments a bit better too. I wasn't saying that players don't buy stuff from tailors, that's just plain silly. What I was attempting to say, was that if this stat thing was only to effect non-custom clothing, and not be accessible by tailors, then why would people choose custom clothes over the ones that boost stats? Regardless of how they look, most players would probably go for the stat boost, uber-oldbies excluded, cause honestly, some of them don't need stat boosts. I think what you're planning with this is exactly the thing needed to help the tailoring profession survive though.

  On another note though, how about shoes affecting agl. We all remember pumping up the reebok pumps back in the nineties don't we? Or the Nike Shox of recent years, the ones with the little springie things in the heels? Or how about the legendary PF Flyers from the Sandlot? I think a sweet pair of sneaks should help out the agl thing. I'm just saying.  

I like this idea. However, letting tailors choose seems difficult. No one is gonna wanna pay top chy for something that decreases their stats. However, if their are mutual advantages and disadvantages - it'd work better.

Otherwise, great stuff.

Well, for clothing.. I can see shoes having an effect on agility, and I like that idea.

But other then shoes for agility, helmeted that reduce perception, and armor that weighs you down and makes you slower, clothing is mainly about looking good.

The reason I say a tailor of enough stature should be able to choose, is because some players simply don't give a fuck about charisma.  Some clothing might be meant to be scary.  A tough ass ganger doesn't want their short desc to be 'a good looking guy' they want to be scary!

Also, while -players- might always -want- their clothing to offer a positive charisma rating, that doesn't mean it's IC.  I mean, if you have a tailor make you a scary looking cape with like fucking razor blades on it, that's not going to make people -like- you.

So hopefully that tailor would take the IC approach and make the cape do charisma damage.  I want to give players the tools to RP appropriately, and I don't want to not allow people to do things just because most people -wont- do it, cause it would hurt their character.

To me, that would be like a player, who knows OOCly that they are walking into an ambush, changing how their character RPs in order to avoid the situation.

I want people to be able to RP to the best of their abilities and I want to have the code be there to support them when they need it, even if it's a negative effect that they are looking for.

I know now every player is like that, but some are, and they should have the tools at their disposal to help them out code wise.

That's why we created eye patches.. so we could RP that injury, even though they still technically have both eyes.  Or, if someone loses a hand, we can make it so they only have one hand code wise (and it effects your stats too!) hell, if someone really wants to RP having one eye, we can give them a permanent (until clone death) reduction to perception!  (i've done that with my character a couple of times).

If you have injectable cyberware such as synaptic stimulus, please check that the clothing you wear / remove doesn't end up remove your stat effects caused by your injectables.

If you notice a problem, please report it right away to me.

I had one player report a problem, where there stat boosts were all remove, not just the ones for the clothing, I have not been able to duplicate or trace this problem.  If you notice the problem, please let me know exactly what clothing you had at the time, so I can see if it's something specific.

It may also have been unrelated, at this time I'm not sure.  Your help in figuring out this problem is appreciated.

Got one thing regarding clothing: blood, gore, and sewage.

If you are bloody (or shitty) as hell, and are walking around in clothing or armor that is covered as such, then charisma should automatically take a dive until said offending articles are washed.  That is, unless this feature's already been implemented...

Additionally, we have blood messages and wetness messages. We should have "gore" messages, depending on what we've splashed around in. For instance: sewage, toxic waste, giant scorpion ichor, entrails of the wicked, etc.



So clothes can affect stats, what about skill modifiers?

Stats affect a general area of your skills so guns or dodge etc, have a foundation around agility(or is it perception for guns? dunno). Good! We can modify certain skills in this way but, in certain instances, maybe it could be a bit more specific.

I see different clothing like lab coats, and some type of security vests. Come to think of it, I guess there isn't that many examples I can think off. so I'll focus on the lab coat, what if it added a bonus to your medicine? Certainly not a large difference, but it would motivate some people to actually wear it in certain IC situations. Plus, wearing a lab coat and then getting a bonus in Intelligence to modify medicine doesn't make sense, it's more the fuctionality, familiarity that makes it useful to the field.

Then I thought of SHI, and the different SHI clothing. What if when you showed up for work, the boss took you more seriously than the others? Instead of making 300chyen you gain some extra cash with the more clothing you wear! so You wear the hat, the pants i think there is a couple others. And you end up making 2x300chyen. Call them environmental modifiers? Though I bet it would be a bit more complicated to implement. Maybe there could be work arounds, instead of actually changing the amount paid based on clothes. Perhaps the boss just comes out and a trigger alerts him to pay you extra, and give a casual approving nod?

uhh.. Driving gloves for.. driving? Also I was curious about the relationship between stat/skill, is it just a mulitplier? or is a minimum stat level required for skills to work properly?VermilionGrin

You will no longer gain more than one effect to your stats by wearing duplicate articles of clothing (i.e. two pair of dress pants). Do not buy all the X so you can wear them all. Thank you.
Was this really a thing? Lame.