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[March '23] Improvements Feedback
Feedback for changes made in March 2023

Feedback thread.
I think it's important to callout with the changes of losses of disguise points per combat round that wigs/contacts have very low hp vs ponchos and are still a much shittier disguise medium with these changes.
Why is there not more discussion here about this?

I feel like the discussions we had and the issues raised previously have been somewhat overlooked.

With these nerfs to ponchos, I thought there was going to be improvements to other disguise mediums. To me this looks like a nerf over everything, which to me will not change the poncho meta that it seemed most people had an issue with.

So I am really confused as to why these changes took place at all other than to make hiding your identity when doing things harder for everyone.

I don't know I just thought they'd be more feedback on these changes here and surprised there isn't presently.

As Slither has said, lets see how this goes.

Just for context, I didn't make these changes on a whim. The changes were directly a result of the feedback from the polls I ran (results posted in Anything Really), and the feedback from the last guided discussion (log is on here as well). I did also make a change that made wigs and things of that nature more durable, FWIW. I do have one more change planned for wigs/contacts/items of that nature which is coming.
Thank you SO SO SO SO MUCH for the appear weaker and the wig/contact boosts!! It really means everything you took our feedback into account!

I'm a bit confused by what you mean by this in the improvements notes: "That puts a wig OR contacts on par with shrouds/ponchos in terms of how much 'disguise' they offer from a system perspective."

Also, ChatGPT-powered NPCs sound amazing.

Basically what I mean is that the amount of disguise points you get from a wig is the same as a shroud gives. Same goes for contacts.
I don't like the ChatGPT chatter function. I spend a lot of time crafting the gossip I give to bartenders so that it has the biggest impact and is snappy and grabs people's attention! and then for ChatGPT to rewrite the chatter, completely redoing the syntax, emphasizing the wrong main points of what I wanted to get across, and skipping over valuable parts of the gossip...It takes the oomph out of the gossip I wanted repeated.
It seems more realistic to me that NPCs would repeat a version of what they heard, but not quite exactly the same thing, this is data travelling through the grapevine after all.

It was also pretty strange hearing verbatim repeats of rumors from every NPC. Especially over and over and over and over again. I personally feel like the variation is a plus to immersion.

I concede to that point.
More cyberware for more people is a good thing. more business for docs is a good thing. More people dying and getting more cyberware is a good thing. Thank you for making good things.
With the hard chrome pricing being adjusted will the be an price drop on nanos since unlike chrome it is harder to acquire second hand? Sorry if that is FOIC I just think it should be spoken about.
I see the reductions in price for chrome as a good and bad thing.

Good points

-makes it more accessible to everyone

-reduces the worry of loss due to its cost reduction

Bad points

-doesn't change the cost lost on nanos (which have no second-hand market)

-reduces the reward for those going after chromed-up targets

-potentially damages the viability of the second hand market

I think in isolation this is a good move, but chrome's price being reduced yet after markets not being adjusted may have a knock on effect across a lot of RP and conflict avenue. And I am not sure hard chrome specifically was as big a loss issue as Nanos were because you can often buy or get your chrome back for free. Nano's on the other hand will always be the same price and still require the 24 hour recovery time, making for a bigger investment and bigger loss.

This is however a good step in the right direction.

As much as I like and support this change - and I also support the suggestions for lowering nanogenics to be comparable as well - I worry that further reductions in the 'cost of operating' for violent crime is going to continue to further exasperate the present issue of rampant inflation in the service economy.

We've had continued, systematic price-reductions on everything related to going and beating the crap out of people and killing them, but the price of services continue to inflate, so I'm not sure to what extent this will have the desired outcome.

As someone who does enjoy PVP, I love the change. I don't know if it'll convince more people to get their toes wet. I think the most successful systems in doing that to date have been the systems that allow for gear replacement. While similar in nature to price reductions, there's that feeling of a safety net of getting some 'functional' gear immediately off the vat to get you back into the game. I think the psychological aspect is a key component of getting people to step outside their comfort zone willingly.

I don't understand how reducing operating costs could cause more inflation. Can you explain?
I did not originally mention the job most effected by this change as I needed to do a little research, but I will now.

I am not sure many are aware at how bad this actually is. There is now chrome with profit margins so tiny that it costs more in travel than the profit made from the installation.

This also hits the second hard market even more given there has not been an adjustment for the installation fee's of second-hand chrome.

There is now chrome that costs less to purchase new and have it installed, than it costs to just cover the installation fee for a second hand installation (excluding cost of chrome).

I know these changes were mean well, but I feel like they were made without looking at the larger picture and interwoven effects this has outside of simply the prices on the price board.

This job path, has seen a consistent reduction in reward while the expectation of knowledge on the systems ooc has increased and the skill investment still remains deep.

The illegitimate path of this type of work could also see a negative impact due to the installation charges of second hand chrome vs the cost of simply buying in straight up brand new and the potential reduction in the viability of second hand chrome in general.

As an aside, when a bar tender gets more in tips than a cyber surgeon gets for surgery something needs looking at.

Money enters the game at a fixed rate based on the % of players engaging with income systems.

Reducing the price of goods doesn't alter the income, so you're going to net result as more mixers having more money (since they die and regear the most frequently.)

Mixers are already demanding absolutely insane prices for everything from delivering a cigarette lighter to killing people. Mixers being even more cash flush because of continued price reductions doesn't help this problem, it gives it more fuel to grow.

Does that make sense?


I think cybersugeons should get paid a much improved baseline salary, and maybe a per diem for labor on operations, instead of a % of the sales. One kay per labor per install or X per session, or something.

This makes it so that you can control what chrome prices cost and what cyberdocs make independently of one another and addresses some of the issues from yesteryear where cyberdoctors were nearly as bad of chyen printers as chemists. (Although the MDK rate has tanked, so I know this isn't true currently.)


I would think that each surgery has a difficulty rating.

In terms of pay, each surgery should have a flat costed based on the difficulty of the surgery. Regardless of the second hand or first hand nature of it. A cost calculation based on the challenge rating, and the rating should be ranked something like Low,med,high skill.

Breaking down cyberware installations to these IC present skill rankings allows for a few things.

Rookie docs


expert Docs

With that you can allow a lower bar of entry for minor surgery and a high bar and higher earnings for higher skilled and trusted surgeons.

It always baffled me how the cost was flat for second hand installs. As it is basically valuing the surgeons skill as the same for simply pressing a button to doing completely neural surgeon.

Anyway, just my suggestion to perhaps go to fixing this, because at present it feels like the path of that archetype is needed by the game, yet is very uninviting and not particularly rewarding.

Ultimately though, I think that these changes will hopefully open up conversations that lead us into a much better place for this achitype and cyberware in general. It needs to be brought inline with the investment level that is required for it.

I will say, if this is the first step in an economy squish overall, then I think this is a good if currently jarring step.

Reducing prices reduces the price to purchase the cyberware by a cyberdoc. We adjusted the markup at clinics by reducing it from 300% in some cases to 150% but we didn't reduce it below that if it wasn't already below it. Cyberdocs can tell someone no, or charge a higher premium for their services if they don't think it's worth their time. That's business. We can't make changes that are only going to have a positive impact on 100% of people. Ant change is going to have some follow on effects that change the meta of the game.

Reducing the overall cost of getting fully geared up was the goal. Plenty of people can just get more cyber with the same amount of money which should offset some of the changes. And cyberdocs and their clinics install rates and other things are all IC and that can be addressed ICly if people want to.

I appreciate the feedback but I also think that we need to see how things go and not foretell too much into the future about how this will play out. It's often hard to predict. If the changes don't have the intended effect we can try something else or make additional changes :)

I think expanding on what cyberware can be removed/replace/swapped out may be a good way to help out cyberdocs in this scenario.
I will see how the landscape changes, and hopeful this has the positive effects you made the change for. I do think it is deserving of wider discussion and thought, for potentials to make the changes be positive for the 100% and be more positive overall.

The changes equate to an average drop of 50% in profits for cyberdocs. It is possible to charge more, the pricing might need to be mobile, competitive and able to offer something more to prospective clients. Potentially offering freedom to the players to set the prices on the boards might help with this. Historically the price board prices have been honoured as far back as I have experienced.

I am not really sure what people would do if cyberdocs started charging commissions ontop of the price board prices, I've never seen it happen. Perhaps the prompts given to cyberdocs in training might need to be considered, as they have been very assuring that the priceboard is to be honored.

This, as you say, is a small thing really it only directly affects maybe 2-4 players at most and I feel with a little care and attention that can be sorted to greater benefit to the wider community.

With chrome being so cheap new, and the installation costs being close to the cost of the chrome + installation brand new. This has the potential to hits fixers as well. In some cases chrome, which includes some of the most popular chrome in the game, will have zero value second-hand. This affects the rewards when ripping a body, which means ripper docs will get paid less, which could make ripping less profitable.

To address a part of that installation fees for second-hand chrome will need to drop that same 50% (if it has then that's fine, but I've not heard about that yet) at least then there is a lower cost at legal locations, ripperdocs outside of that with more freedom and more to offer can adjust accordingly. As you say, sort it IC, the legal costs I think do need to drop in unison with the cost of new chrome though.

I feel it can be a positive path, at present it is rough around the edges with perhaps some gaps that might not have been thought about fully.

I am just going to mention though at this point that some of the most popular chrome installations actually pay the surgeon less than a rookie emt for a single patch-up job. Which just feels weird to me.

I will watch this space, and see how things roll. If you have any tips on how I can be better at putting forward constructive criticism let me know, that is what I'm attempting to achieve here.

I hope the idea of difficulty-tiered surgery tied to profit and surgeon position is perhaps consider, I can expand in an idea if it is remotely viable.

From a consumer's standpoint I see the cybernetics price cut as a positive overall. Hoping to see chrome be more commonplace among all sectors and thus make the game look/feel more cyberpunk. Though I do think Fopsy makes some very valid points that cyberdocs should be making more money. Currently, if the job boards are correct, a cyberdoc makes barely more than the suggested pay for a bartender in the Mix.
It's sort of tangential to the discussion, but price reductions without altering the money supply is the very literal counteraction to inflation: Namely deflation.

Per the discussion, couldn't cyberneticists just charge whatever they wanted for installs? Whether a flat appointment rate, or percentage markup, or fee per item.

If the goal with the repricing of chrome is to allow people to get geared back up more easily, it feels like an oversight that nanos haven't been reduced also. I'm not sure that everyone does, but I thought people typically would replace their nanos prior to replacing their hard chrome.

I think a glance at the cost of the cyberneticist knockout drug (forget the name) and a reconsideration of how rare it is might help with what Fopsy is talking about, but I'm not sure.

Shady unlicensed chrome work is cool and themely, but it's not very viable even before this change happened. Personally love the price reduction overall though.


I think I already addressed the potential issues with cyberdocs dictating their prices with the current tools and history of cybernetics. Maybe have a quick skim and see if you have a constructive suggestion about how that work. Perhaps think about what your character might do if faced by a Doc who wanted to charge to 2k over the board price or other cyber Docs.

Players can already control the cyber boards. That's why a cyberware we priced at 30k was costing 70k to install. Getting access to the price boards is an IC thing. And needs to be handled ICly. Setting the installation price is also an IC thing. The only thing the admin truly control is the .value of the cyberware.

We didn't touch nanos because they are already priced where we want them to be. They are extremely powerful, pure stat boosts.

Maybe I'm not understanding something, but why are brand new players to Sindome being blamed for everything being so expensive?
Thank you so much for making a method for us to resume flight back to Earth from space, I know your schedule has been very difficult!

Could you clarify if the NAV DESCEND command is an auto-pilot function back to NeoTrans or if you still need to manually intervene to prevent bad things? It is hard to tell from the bug fix update.

NAV DESCEND just puts you back at the top of the airspace and you then need to shut off your engine to free fall or fly down manually. You initially will just hover there and if you shut off your engine, you’ll slowly drift down and eventually gain speed but it takes a while.
@Risikio I'm not sure what you mean. I'm stating that the economy is in part, under player control, and thus, staff coming in and making changes only goes so far. Supply & Demand. Player Agency. Etc.
Thanks again for the changes to motorcycles getting all permissions by default, it's a subtle change but a solid QOL improvement for bike owners in the long run.
The disposable cred chips are huge to me, already having a ton of fun with them, great addition.
Nerfing chrome costs, while awesome for the buyer, does indeed suck for the docs of the world. I haven't played a cyberdoc in several years, but it never really made sense to me that they were paid partially on a commission in the first place. Time will tell, but I see this as something that will need adjustment on flat pay as well.

On the other hand, there's always price fixing. Get with your rivals and work something out across the city. Beat down the ones that don't want to get in on the action.

Cyberdocs are essentially unrestricted in the amount of money they can make by doing installs. I think we need to give it some time and then take feedback from existing docs about the positive or negative impact this had, and if the amounts they are making are inline with the time/effort compared to other roles in the game.
I'm also of the opinion that more chrome in-game means more ripping chrome - so the feedback loop of cheap chrome and consistent ripperdoc profits works out.
Final tend change is good. Thanks for that.
I love the new and creative use of ChatGPT in the game. Amazing work you guys!