Weapon balance
Small suggestions

The second one might be more of a problem than I've seen, but also I think it should be considered that parrying with them would sensibly be a lot easier.

A big-ass sledgehammer with a plastic stick is probably easier to hold up and block a hit with, than, say, a butterfly knife.

Or maybe two handed weapons should be treated as if you are dual wielding in terms of parry bonus?

From my perspective, Martial Arts being left out is a feature not a bug. Martial Arts relies on agility which naturally synergies with nearly all weapon type in some fashion and obviously makes your hands hella danger. The inherent bonus with brass knuckles, the muscleboy build, and strength use for brawling over a martial artist with bo staff seem like a fair trade.

Melee suffering on the dual wielding bonus on the other hand is a bit of a travesty. My assumption was that the two handed weapons available to a melee user would incorporate suitable bonus' to damage or something to offset the lack of dual wielding. If they don't - I think some suitable balancing should take place for sure. I don't think it should be a straight up apples for apples parry/defense boost though but I trust the quartermaster to work out those numbers accordingly.

On a sidenote, Nailz being awful is a tragedy and I'm sorry I ruined them for everyone by going crazy with them many moons ago.

Regarding Synth-Knuckz, at one point they were able to parry bullets and needed to nulled because that was nonsense but I lack familiarity beyond that.

Sai's from Japanese martial arts and Wing Chun butterfly knives (not to be confused with Filipino butterfly knives) are prime examples. Sai's were a popular counter to katanas. While butterfly knives were a counter to staffs and spears. Nunchaku are another weapon that were effective against longer, two handed weapons.

Given that, dual wielders should absolutely gain a parry bonus against two handed weapons (when using the appropriate weapons).

At the risk of going off on a tangent, don't even get me started about the impracticality of using a staff on a crowded street, inside a building, or in any other sort of tight quarters.

I thought the discussion was about parrying bonuses for dual wielding versus two handed weapons.

What do guns have to do with that?

There was a pretty insane example of the parry bonus conferred from dual wielding yesterday, but I'm sure the GMs are aware and might be the reason for this post.

Also, this idea that Martial Arts synergizes well with other skills and thus can be nerfed to oblivion is annoying to me. I could say the same about Long Blades, Short Blades, Pistols, Rifles and SMGs. They all synergize well with other skills so they can ALL be nerfed into oblivion if that's our argument. Even Brawling and Melee synergize well together and while it is certainly less, it's still there. Lots of skills can synergize.

Long Blades:

This skill was already the awesomest. Damage was great. It synergized well with other skills (MA's not the only one that does this) and you can do things with swords you can't do with any other weapon. I don't think they needed yet more of a boost from Dual wielding.

Martial Arts:

Synergizes well with other skills on par with Long Blades, Knives, Guns and the like. Unique to MA, when you use a staff you are actually less effective in a fight in one specific way than you would be without it. There is a penalty to using a staff. I was specifically told this was because the Staff was great at parrying. It was a trade off. And there is no other option for MA. It's bare knuckles, two handed staff or nothing.

Brawling:

Brawling Synergizes well with melee. Brass Knucks do good damage and are pretty much the best 'uanarmed combat' weapon in the game. They do not suffer the penalty in combat that staff users get. But that was okay because they didn't used to get any kind of parry bonus. Well. Now they do. And you can see how nice this is in game. So the supposed benefit staffs enjoyed at the cost of a penalty is no more.

Melee:

Synergizes well with Brawling. These guys are hit just as hard as Martial Artists. If you use melee weapons you are likely going to have to make a hard choice that Swords, knives, brawl and gun users will not have to make. If you are a melee fighter you usually have to sacrifice damage to dual wield and get the parry bonus or take the damage without the parry bonus by using a two handed weapon. Only other skill that faces problems at this level is MA and they just don't get a choice at all.

Short Blades:

Another skill that synergizes great with many other skills. Just aswell as Martial Arts and Long Blades and guns can synergize. But I don't think that dual wielding takes an already powerful knife skill and makes it yet more powerful. Knifes always felt middle of the road to me at best. So it is a boon to knifers. Luckily, they can just dual wield and enjoy. No hard choice needed.

Pistols:

Similar to short blades and long bades and brawling (no hard choice). But I personally am not interested in seeing more pistol users who are supposed to be maintaining distance blocking sledgehammers with their guns. Granted, it doesn't happen often but I suspect dual wielding just makes it happen more often. Oh. This skill ALSO synergizes well with other skills on the same level as MA, knives, Long Blades and the like.

Rifles:

Yep. Never gonna get it. No parry for you. Same boat as Martial Arts really except it makes more sense given how you use Rifles. Oh. This skill also synergizes well with other skills.

SMG:

Same camp as Rifles really.

If every build had to invest in two skills just to be effective then nobody would be happy. you definitely don't see swordsmen or melee users having to do this.

I'd also like to see something a little more modern in terms of weaponry. The idea that everyone carries around these huge wooden sticks in the year 2104 is kind of silly. It's a discussion for another day but expandable bo staffs do exist.

Also you can duels wield smudges and lay down a wall of bullets.

/off topic reeeeing

My head is still reeling and I barely understand most of what Grey0 wrote. But now I know that there is a whole bunch of interplay in between various skills that I never knew existed. I know that certain weapon combinations are "better" than others due to the way code is written.

There is so much meta in this thread it should probably be deleted.

Just because you see someone doing amazing shit with one weapon and you suck with yours - doesn’t mean it’s the skill or weapon that’s at fault.

Perpetuating misinformation on the bgbb only further divides the gap between newbie’s and veteran players. Be constructive and responsible with what you share.

Let’s focus on dual wielding balance, yeah?

The dual wielding system that was added six months ago conferred an extra advantage to three weapon classes that definitely didn't need the help, cyberweapons got nerfs over the years that make them unappealing, and people aren't choosing to use SMGs because it's the only gun that locks you out of an archetype. I think that's really all that needed to be said.

Now, I will say, that there ARE IC benefits to dual wielding firearms, but let's say that they're more niche in usage, and very specific to what the exact kind of weapon you're trying to use is.