Sleep Deprivation Consequences

Hek posted a complaint citing people staying logged in to constantly watch security cameras here: https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/game-problems/idle-times-and-surveillance-networks-463/

I've also heard other complaints about people who do this to constantly stream SIC messages even when they're not active. While I do not think this is necessarily game-breaking, it certainly is a grey area in terms of abuse and meta.

I propose that if your PC doesn't get 6-8 hours of sleep (logoff time) daily, they begin to experience a sleep deprivation $cript. Impacts would be subtle at first with reduced fatigue and perception but slowly amplify. Ways to combat this would be with drugs and the appropriate chrome object.

Thoughts?

By ReeferMadness at Aug 1, 2020 2:38 PM

I don't think bringing login times into this when idle times are the issue is a good idea.

If anything you could have it so that long-running idle time ingame eventually causes a 'spaced out' status where you have less and less intake of information. You won't notice movement on a camera, you won't get all of SIC. It just doesn't print for you. Actually performing ingame actions refocuses you and removes it, so on.

By PCow at Aug 1, 2020 2:42 PM

I will just say that having a sleep deprivation mechanic is terrible. No. Don't do this. We don't want to punish players that actually want to play the game. This is not only punishing those AFK but those who play more than those times.

I don't like this one bit.

By SolBro at Aug 1, 2020 2:43 PM

It's punishing players who play more than 16-18 hours a day. Which... good, honestly. Take a shower. Make some food. Sleep.

By Wonderland at Aug 1, 2020 2:45 PM

I really like PCow's idea about basing it off of idle time, as opposed to time logged out. Not gonna lie, SD is one of the few things getting me through this quarantine, and I'd be really sad if I had a timer giving my char IC consequences based on my real life choices.

By svetlana at Aug 1, 2020 2:48 PM

This ranks up there with NOT EATING.

By Floki at Aug 1, 2020 2:49 PM

It never even occurred to me that some players would never log off.

I definitely think it makes sense to require characters to sleep at least a bit, especially considering how many other things are meant to be as realistic as possible.

By 0x1mm at Aug 1, 2020 2:50 PM

I hate any kind of enforced hunger/thirst/sleep system no matter what game it is, so I'm going have to disagree.

By pfh at Aug 1, 2020 2:50 PM

Just make is so if you don't input commands for x time you get DC'd from the server. It will make it better for GMs since less server stress too.

Not gonna lie, sometimes I fell asleep while SD was running >->

By SolBro at Aug 1, 2020 2:51 PM

Yeah, could be similar to the SHI code except over a longer period of time and based on idle time (time spent without inputting commands).

By svetlana at Aug 1, 2020 2:52 PM

@0x1mm wrote

It never even occurred to me that some players would never log off.

I didn't notice it until I had been playing for a while. Between being a part time single parent, and working from home for a global consulting firm, I have pretty random hours.

Yet there are probably half a dozen characters who I can almost guarantee that I will see online no matter when I logon.

By Hek at Aug 1, 2020 2:55 PM

Now you can @ooc and show up on @who, and it's allowed for players to idle in that state for up to a date as far as I am aware.

However the idea of staying awake forever IC is insane to me and incredibly gamey. Removing the need for intel to catch up from when you're sleeping, or an additional player to manage surveillance which you just check the logs of in the morning feels like borderline cheating to me.

In my opinion if the player is asleep, the character should be, unless they're @ooc.

By 0x1mm at Aug 1, 2020 3:02 PM

Ahem. 'Up to a day', I mean.

By 0x1mm at Aug 1, 2020 3:02 PM

Idle time is not in any way indicative of a player's actually being present and available in the game.

Some people ignore SIC's for hours on end. Those people don't get RP and plots.

Some people sit and idle- but are present and responsive.

This seems like a solution in search of a problem.

Inactive people don't get plots. They don't make money. They don't get RP. Because you know, they're.. idle. That's a large punishment in and of itself.

By TalonCzar at Aug 1, 2020 3:03 PM

I agree with @0x1mm

Just make it so if you don't input commands for x time, you DC. Server boots you!

If players make a script to always input commands, GM's will easily be able to tell and do their GM magic to stop them from abusing the system. It's a win-win!

By SolBro at Aug 1, 2020 3:03 PM

If you're inactive for more than a certain time, you don't get UE for that period either, I believe.

By svetlana at Aug 1, 2020 3:04 PM

@talon

They're arguing that people can idle with SIC and get it's knowledge. And in SD, knowledge = plot = money = stuff.

By SolBro at Aug 1, 2020 3:05 PM

From what I'm aware, staff keeps tabs on this kind of stuff in general, to avoid people staying logged on to monitor X, Y, or Z. Or to make themselves appear always around, in case someone is waiting for them to "sleep."

While I agree, there could probably be more consequences for someone doing -nothing- for hours at a time, while logged in, I don't think this is the solution.

By HolyChrome at Aug 1, 2020 3:05 PM

There are already rules in place for idling to gain in-game advantage.

You can stay online for 24 hours uninterrupted time in a single go.

4.D. Idling

Due to the way the MOO handles experience, use of any system to keep your

character connected to the MOO in your absence is not allowed. Characters

are permitted to idle 24 hours before being disconnected from the

game. Bypassing this disconnect timer in any way to stay connected in your

absence will result in us breaking your connection and preventing

auto-reconnection. Your character will remain unmoved after disconnect and

you are solely responsible for any IC consequences of where your character

ends up 'sleeping'.

By TalonCzar at Aug 1, 2020 3:07 PM

Also, @Talon

They still can, by being a ready source of intel, having been monitoring things for such and such a time. I've run into a handful of people over my time playing that remain inactive for hours on SIC, only to 'catch up' to a day's worth of info. These people can still benefit from this.

By HolyChrome at Aug 1, 2020 3:08 PM

Or instead of total disconnects, have the character zone out. Have all SICs come across as encrypted. Make messages about cameras, the world around your character, and people speaking come off as vague.

The world begins to blur as you escape into your own mind.

By batko at Aug 1, 2020 3:16 PM

This is an interesting concept. It is also very intricate, involved and if implemented would affect the entire playerbase.

It's too broad of a solution to address the abuse of a very small portion of the overall player population.

By Hek at Aug 1, 2020 5:39 PM

-	PoliticalLemon	1m
-	PsycoticCone	8m
-	Zulfi	49s
-	BitLittle	1h
-	Ralph	5h
And 14 more hiding and/or disguised

Sleep Deprivation Consequences I haven't slept in 72 hours!

Sleep Deprivation Consequences
I haven't slept in 72 hours!