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Right of rebuttal on Ideas
OP Respect

During and following this:

[+][OOC-Chat] bitMuse: This thread is a dumpsterfire and I'm staying out of it. Recommend swerving.

[+][OOC-Chat] beandip: nobody should get to post more than 1 reply to someone else's idea.

[+][OOC-Chat] HolyChrome: LMAO

[+][OOC-Chat] HolyChrome: That's actually not a bad idea.

[+][OOC-Chat] bitMuse: you should post it to ideas

[+][OOC-Chat] beandip: right of rebuttal should belong to the OP

This suggestion goes against any idea of actually discussing the weights and merits of ideas.

There's a legitimate debate going on in the thread that you linked. People are using evidence and experience to weigh the pros and cons of ideas back and forth.

Comments calling the thread a dumpster fire and the like are precisely why myself and many others avoid the OOC channels like the plague. You don't like it? Great, don't participate in the thread. There's zero reasons you need to get on the game's OOC channels and bitch about people debating a topic.

Forum notifications bothering you? Turn them off.

What -possible- benefit is there to only allowing people to post a single post? Should we put a 280 character limit and thumbup and thumbdown emojis on those posts as well? This is a little reductio ad absurdum here, but really, why? Forum participation is 100% optional, and staff do a pretty banging job of maintaining them. Where's the issue?

Personally I was being hyperbolic when I made that comment but thought "why not" when someone called it an @idea.

It actually has nothing to do with the OOC channel - ok, so on that channel people were talking about the firestorm happening on the forum topic, but, they weren't wrong that it was turning into an uncivil shitstomp.

The thing about the "debate" is people keep saying the same thing over and over - not one person in that thread said a NEW thing after their second back-and-forth. That's the point at which the forum topic became unconstructive and people in OOC were talking about getting angry. Again, OOC is a place where people expressed their own selves, not where judgement of others was occurring. That happened entirely in the forum.

So I'm not married to this @idea but I definitely think it highlights (once again) that behavior on the forums could use improvement. Since the XOOC changes, that area has improved, I think you're projecting a bit to imagine that XOOC is where the toxicity in this particular case was expressed.

Let me spell out in one separate easy-to-read comment where I was coming from:

Disrespecting someone's @idea is uncivil. Debate is fine, my "modest proposal" was a reaction to the judgemental comments aimed at the OP of the idea, which I think was utterly undeserved no matter how bad someone else thought the idea was.

Go ahead and express it if you think that, and then let it go, job's done, your job is not to prove the OP wrong or teach them a lesson.

I feel this would be very poor for vibrant discussion. It would further divide conversations into very long posts as people try to ensure they get every possible thought on something they conceivably have into their one reply (which then many won't read), or snarky / completely unproductive short replies from people just wanting to show up in the thread to show up.

Threads derailing, or rehashing points, or debates circling on perhaps relatively minor aspects of some idea (this isn't pointed at the thread in question, I haven't read it yet) are just...part of having forums and discussions, there's only so much there, there as far as policing things into productivity. Civility is another thing, but it has gotten 1000% better in the last few months.

The OOC channel is a whole other beast, like Talon I try to stay far away from it. Seeing people take to it and call players out (by name) and tearing into them with sort of weird vitriol for their BGBB posts, their ideas, etc. with no repercussions was a daily occurrence just weeks ago. Presumably the OOC moderation step has helped curb things like that, I can't speak to it. Maybe if some of the civility that's finally taken hold on the forums expands to the culture there more players would hang out.

People just need to calm down and remember that people are allowed to disagree over things and that isn't personal.
I think it would help if people would view posts to an idea thread as a means to present their opinion and understand other people's opinions. Not as a debate to be won or an opportunity to trash others. Once you feel you've presented your opinion on the matter well enough, leave the thread be and move on. After all, there is no way for any of us to 'win' an ideas thread.