Prevent UE in Apartments
Incentivize going out.

Point one. Prevent UE from being gained in apartments. I'm going to call them apartments, but it really counts any type of location that isn't out and about where groups of people could access. Cubes, apartments, backrooms of stores, Apartments. Locked back areas that everyone part of NLM security can get to? Not an apartment. Basically, if you don't want people spending all day long in the spot because the character can't be accessed, it's an apartment as far as this topic is concerned.

Why? We recently had a survey from admins asking how they could get players out of their apartments. A great way to do it would be to making UE be the reward for leaving. You can still RP in your apartment, absolutely. You just won't get rewarded for being relatively safe while you use that Gomorrah.

Point two Increase the rate at which you earn the maximum 3 UE per day. As it is, it takes a long time to earn all 3. It doesn't take any work at all though. I'm not going to explain how the system is (for all I know, I could be wrong after all). But I also can't see the reason why it should take so long to get the UE. As it is, you could be completely active for over eight hours and not get the 3rd UE yet.

But if you made it so you could gain that UE three times as fast by going out and doing things, even players that don't put in full days can get the UE easily. In as little as two hours. And if they play less than that and want to complain that they can't get the 3 UE, then frankly, I don't care. You get what you put into Sindome really already. This -should- make it less of an annoyance to get them in most cases I think though.

The downsides of all this. I can think of a couple. It might encourage players not to idle in their apartments as much, which could lower our visible player count numbers to be more in line with active player count numbers. Unfortunately, more accurate doesn't look better in this situation.

It might take a lot of work marking all the rooms as No UE.

Ideally, if you went out for 45 minutes and RP'd then went home, you'd get your UE in your home. I don't know the feasibility with the code as it is to allow this to happen though.

There are probably more bad things, but the current system isn't perfect either.

Good things!!

Players have a consistent, day to day reason to get out of their apartments.

Players who have limited time have more chances to get UE in their shorter playing times and can easier compete, statistically, with people that can spend all day. For how much that's worth.

Those trained in Apartment Karate won't get anything. I'm a big fan of that, myself.

There are probably more good things.

The best good thing though, is that if it was implemented, it could probably easily be converted if it turned out to not be very good for the game.

And obviously, none of the numbers are set in stone.

I cut off people regularly I notice who seem to just want to have sex and otherwise stay in their place all day. If there's so much of that going on with them and nothing else, I ic'ly suggest they aim for something more and then I cut off contact. I wish more people did this. The player would be offended but they'd get it after a while. The problem really is them!

I just want to caution everyone about this attitude, presented in this way/in this context. While it's fine to be zealous and want to get more action happening, it might serve to ask why we're trying to solve this problem. Personally, I have a lot of fun playing Sindome and I've never once thought, 'Where are all the people, why are they hiding in apartments?' I pursue my own goals and agenda, I don't simply wander around the IC world looking for people to interact with or become turned off when I fail to find them.

The reason I'm pointing this out is because I think a lot of people are like Stelpher. Sometimes I'm on mobile, sometimes I'm pre-occupied or multi-tasking, but I still like to play. My point is, let's try not to turn anyone off from the game by going all white-knuckle on it, by apartment-shaming or whatever. Most of the games systems are set up so people can be chill and participate at their own pace.

There are those of us who are extreme introverts (and yes, being an extreme introvert can and does directly affect one's play style due to a limited amount of energy) and/or suffer from anxiety who on a fair amount of days need to limit contact to a certain amount of time or a number of people. These are the people who are okay with being tertiary characters in the game's broader world and story. Actively choosing to punish them doesn't help the game. No, they aren't always out in the world, but they're usually available if someone wants to roleplay whether it's to have a chat, to play a prank on, provide a service, etc.

All this does, in the end, is punish introverts who still are roleplaying and rewarding serial idlers who will do that anywhere. Tell me, is it worse to walk into a bar with one person or to walk into a bar with five people idling and doing nothing? Because I've done the latter and my character has worked in the latter. It isn't fun, rewarding or encouraging.

Finally, as a game-health request I really wish we as players would stop using the meta phrase Apartment Karate, which doesn't only exist in OOC chat and on the boards but comes up in-game. It's an assumptive meta phrase which I've seen labeled to people who are actively participating in combat in subtler contexts and who also hire trainers to teach them which generates roleplay. It does nothing for the game, in many cases it's based on large assumptions because you don't see what a character is doing and it is a label which is hard to shed.

It's not very important if you like or agree with the idea or not. It's more about if it would work.

If you don't think the idea would work, why? If you do, why? How about ways to improve this idea and make it suck less.

What about alternate ways to get people out and about more?

So try and give each other work. If your character want's to get something done, try and spread the wealth and involve others. If you don't have the resources, see if you can find someone who does and pull them into you plot.

For some players, the job doesn't even have to be amazing. Scouting. Collecting data. And if you find a player that is completely uninterested in the kind of RP you want to engage in, move on. Cut them out.

I'm not saying that this is easy. I have a hard time plotting as a PC and have literally put myself in the poorhouse several times by giving all my flash to others to do jobs. I haven't mastered the art of parting the well off from their flash. But I still try my damnedest to give the people around me things to do - preferably things that can only be done outside their pad.

If you don't want, that's cool too. Rent as it is can be pretty steep. People will leave when they can to make the rent. If you want to influence people to leave their apartments it's probably more a deep rooted OOC issue. For example, when my kid comes home from school I might forget to log off right away. I don't have time to chase an almost five year around the house and SD (nor would I want to because I like spending time with her over SD sryz) And sometimes it can be an IC issue like I just got out of the hospital after fifteen samurais tried to behead me in the lev and now I'm healing in bed poppin endo and eatin chicken sandwhiches because I'm not running around the mix/office in a messed up medical condition.

Just move on without 'em. If they want to come out, they'll come out.

Why I decided to comment, however, is I have seen a couple of people advocate the cutting of people out of RP.

Seriously? That is how you incentivize someone? What do you do when they "learn their lesson"? Do you re-engage them with RP?

I have been known to do the exact opposite. I obviously can't go into context but I have literally given away all of my RP threads to other people so they could have something to do. -That- is the mentality we should all be taking on. You should never keep an RP thread for yourself, because the player you just cut out for never going outside of his apartment could become the next Seven if only they had a place to start.

Sindome is a huge game with a lot of moving parts. We all know this. You don't have to be the focus of all the parts all the time. You can't take your RL money with you, what makes you think chy is any different? Spend it! Buy something from a fixer. Make someone give you pay data. Corpies and Mixers a like. If you are a manager in a corp? You should be doing nothing but collecting a pay check because you have given your underlings all the rp threads to work. Same goes for gang leaders.

The more powerful your character becomes, the more time you should spend idling in your office.

Clearly I am not talking about everyone. Don't take it so personally.

But they're also right in the other instance. I don't think any UE should be given to players who aren't doing anything. That includes myself on the days where I'm really not doing anything.

But this is also about the ideas of how to get people out of their apartments. If you're not going to play, nothing is going to get you out. That's fine. I'd prefer you get nothing for your time spent idle.

I also like Reefer's post a lot.

Reefer and Supermarket have both hit it right on the head in my opinion; firstly, that if we want people to come out more, we should focus on our own characters and making the game interesting; secondly, that if people just aren't into it, if they're experienced and want to chill in their apartments talking and SICing, that's up to them, it's not anyone's obligation to force them to out or to try to appease whatever they're lacking.

As Reefer also said, going out and playing in the world is its own reward. You can probably make a fortune chilling in your apartment as a corpie and collecting your paychecks, and if that's what you want to do, it's your game. Mixers need to go hustle to earn flash, gear, to network, to get ahead.

And if it IS a corporate issue, but chance, then let's not implement a solution that hits us all equally. For most non-immy characters in the Mix, disguises and careful planning about public appearances and movements can be a fact of life. If most serious planning takes place in secret and behind closed doors, it's for safety and IC realism. No one's going to sit in the Drome and hash out an assassination or go lollygagging down Knife Street so their enemies have a chance to ace them. It's just different cultures.

And I'm gonna have to agree with Crooknose and give a hard no to forcing people out of their apartments to do their plotting/secret meetings as a reason for implementing this.

If I lay out a nice plan to ace my enemy or complete a contract for a johnson, and the target somehow manages to get the upper hand on me by whatever means- well played, I'll keep it moving. But, I won't be the one to give them that opportunity by plotting out in the open and opening the window for myself to get got. Mix life :D

But when I toffer to share my RP with someone and they have no interest, then I move on. If this happens consistently, then I stop coming to them for that kind of RP unless I am given reason to think that they have had a change of heart. This is generally an organic, IC process if you stick to your role.

I do, however, believe there can be extreme cases in which I find it acceptable to truly cut someone out. Though even in these extreme cases it tends to be an organic, IC process.

I hope this clears things up!

It would still probably get run way into the ground though.

Most players want to have memorable RP experiences. That said, if that RP includes a character getting screwed over all the time, it makes IC sense for them to stay in their apartment.

If the player is connected and can only play casually due to RL (work, etc) then it makes sense for them to stay in a relatively safe environment.

If a character is an introvert and does a lot of behind the scenes RP, more power to them. Nothing wrong with that kind of RP in my opinion, it should probably be praised as it's pretty CP.

If I was a GM, I'd be looking at individual cases.

In some cases it could just be a newer character is getting screwed over a lot and they need a bit of help with some kind of sense of accomplishment/novelty to balance it out.

In other cases, an older player could be a bit jaded and lacking inspiration/purpose.

Both of those cases could be solved with either a friendly guidance chat from a GM, or ICly via a puppet or other player who can take the lead and include them.

If I'm looking at this purely as a player, which I am, since I'm not a GM, then I just wouldn't care what other players are doing. If I want to RP with someone, I'll find a way to engage with them in an IC appropriate way.

If I notice other characters having trouble with social skills, I help out by introducing them to others and giving them a reason to interact.

Just my 2 cents.

[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Kwisatz Haderach: I wish this topic would just die already, tbh.

[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Kwisatz Haderach: You got former GMs posting in that thread suggesting changes as their own ideas that they know we're working on. You've got people acting like dedicated players shouldn't be able to get all their UE, you got people refusing to acknowledge that RP can happen in doors. You got people just generally upset that some people don't have time to venture far or out of their apartment on the daily and you got people who can't stick with a character for more than 3 months wanting other people to not have more UE than them.

[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Kwisatz Haderach: The way I see it, 99% of everyone in that post is wrong.

[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Kwisatz Haderach: The only thing I want to do is a 1 hour idle timer that moves you to @ooc so you're not on SIC, and denied UE for idling.

[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Kwisatz Haderach: I don't really have any motivation to try to encourage players to leave their apartments, we all know those people know what happens when you leave their apartments. This isn't a knowledge gap, they know the RP is out there, they just don't want it.

[+][OOC-Chat] Staff Kwisatz Haderach: It's not like they're doing this out of ignorance like people seem to suggest.

If you don't want to read it, don't read it.

I didn't have time to read this whole thread but I wanted to point out that if you are idle for an hour or more, you do not receive UE. This has always been the case. No one who has been online 23 hours has received any UE for 22 of those hours. You are only granted UE if you are both IC and not idle.

Putting people in @ooc was more about removing them from the game so people didn't try to interact with them and then have to wait around, not realizing the person was 15 hours idle and definitely not going to respond to their messages.

Again, UE is ONLY granted when you are not idle. This has been the case ever since we raised the idle off timeout from 1 hour to 24 hours.

I have updated 'help ue' to reflect this.

-- S