What do you want to see more of? What information is missing that would help if it were website accessible (keeping in mind IC/OOC barriers)? Have you noticed anything that's out of date information-wise?
We'll compile a list from your ideas to help inform upcoming content edits.
Also I think the archetype stories that Slither wrote awhile back should be easier to find on here. They are SUPER COOL and a great way to draw new players into the game. https://www.sindome.org/bgbb/open-discussion/anything-really/sindome-archetype-stories-979/
The "Hot Jobs" Section on the front page is fairly inaccurate, with multiples of the same job, and half of it being jobs that you can't even get IC as far as I know.
I find the archetypes page to be very useful for knowing what kind of jobs are out there and available, but I get the feeling it's likely outdated, and could be added to. For example the descriptions for lead art director and principal art director are "gets slightly more pretentious" and "becomes a massive tool". Also I think it would be cool to use that section to be able to see whether those jobs are currently hiring or not, what the pay is, and what company hires them.
The corporations page is out of date with SHI and Skywatch not having merged yet.
The membership page talks about large pads being available, but as far as I know, they aren't anymore. Would like if they were though!
My sense is that it's better to avoid even the appearance of officially suggesting skill and stat builds/requirements to players unless the information is inarguably correct.
I would also love it if players were given the ability to edit and delete their own posts on the boards.
I also personally feel the sit's search function could be improved. The search results don't often pull up pages or posts that feel very relevant to me.
Last, if it's decided to keep a web based grid, it would be great if it could detect that I am logged into the site more reliably. As it is I have to sign in and out of the website, sometimes several times, for the grid to recognize that I am logged in. And this might be me seeing patterns where none exist but it also seems like, even after being signed in, the grid doesn't recognize it if I haven't brought up the boards of all things!
I would like to be able to search the timeline. Yes, there are drop down filters, but this doesn't always help me if I don't know what category something is in. This could be fixed if I could just ctrl+F and search the page, but I can't, because as it stands I have to manually hover over every timeline post to expand it first so I can actually do this.
I think the forums could use a little love. Most places let you at least edit your own posts if not delete them. I understand if this was initially done so people couldn't sneakysneak nonsense in, but we live in the future now so China can track it for us and then push sneakysneak ads afterward while linking us with skynet.
This may not be the requests you're after, but if you can fix not having a forum search on the grid, I know the entire dome would rejoice. We had this in the previous version of the grid. Biggest loss with the new grid for sure.
Because it is so incredibly rare to open these up for membership use, we're going to remove that section from the page altogether. I don't have access to do it though so I'll poke the right people.
I wanted to clear up any confusion about it here though. Hope that clarifies things.
Yep. This is exactly how I access the general index currently. The suggestion was for the main lore link to take you to the general index instead of the page it currently links to. It was not my intent to ask how one could get to the general index.
I assume your reply means that staff prefers to not change things but I wanted to be sure as, based on the response, it's quite possible that what I said was misunderstood.
Thanks!
Next up, staff has voted not to re-link Globe articles to the website. We feel this information should be sought after ICly and that putting it on the website circumvents the need for IC tools required to access it.
On the subject of the archetypes page, we agree there's some changes needed and we're working on it.
Broad Changes:
1. We've adjusted a couple of the summarized descriptions to fit more in line with our image of what an archetype should be.
2. Some archetypes have had jobs added or removed based theme and accuracy, as well as what's actually available in some (but not all cases). An example of this is Transit Guard. The job no longer exists and has been removed from all job lists. Cryo Judge has also been removed from all job lists as it isn't a job that one "seeks", nor is it niche to any one archetype.
3. We have adjusted useful skills for several archetypes based on what we'd like to see from them in RP. For example, disguise has been removed from Street Samurai because we want to see these types play more to the egocentric, big and bold stereotype of a cyberpunk street sam. We also adjusted skills we felt aren't needed or encompass another skillset entirely. One example is striking chemistry from the Ripper Doc archetype.
4. We adjusted stats. Stats were removed if they referred to a skill that the archetype no longer has in its list. By and large however, most archetypes have had stats added to them. This better reflects one of three things:
a. Listed skills that didn't previously have relevant stats represented. We will not discuss which skills go with which stats here (nor will you please. let's keep that IC), but do note that all relevant stats are now represented if a complimentary skill is suggested on the archetype.
b. If the stat is themely for an archetype but doesn't reflect a mechanical dice roll. The big example here is Media Star. Many such types might find their start (and even later on the big screen) in roles that require them to dance or move with grace. Those stats are now reflected in the list even if they don't necessarily play into mechanical roles for important or useful skills.
c. It's important to note that every stat is important and you may find yourself severely hampered in some generally basic things if you don't invest into all of them to at least some extent. Some archetypes have up to 5 stats listed now and this more accurately reflects that importance. Do note that while some archetypes list far fewer (as low as two for Fixer and Cyber Jocky, 4 is now the average across the board.
5. There's a new Archetype! It's called Puppet Master. Have a look, enjoy, and yes I'm aware there's not a picture set for it yet. I'm working on that. :)
Anyway that's it! Take a look, share your thoughts etc., and if people have criticisms feel free to share. This is a living document and we can continue to adjust it if we think it needs to be.
Archetypes are looking really good.
I would almost say they might be a better fit now to replace Newsfeed from the main menu, instead of them being nested under Features, just because 'What Classes Can I Play?' seems to me like something RPG interested players will be especially looking for.
I believe I've lamented before about the state of rigging, and how in its current state it's in the running for less developed than decking at this point, but actively putting a new archetype up proclaiming how much fun you'll have being a rigger is like putting up a COMING SOON poster as a way to hide the gigantic hole in the wall that nobody actually wants to address.
2.) When staff froze the topic about the Lord of War archetype, agreeing that you'd discuss it, you did discuss these problems before making the changes to this page, right? Because it looks like there has been literally zero change.
3.) With Trading still being listed as an Important skill to have, does this mean that the price freeze in the markets for firearm related items will be lifted? If so, when will this be announced?
4.) For Related Stats, you have five of the six stats listed. Why? Why is Charisma to be shunned when Trading is supposed to be an Important skill? Also, where does strength come into play for someone dealing primarily with ranged combat?
5.) For possible jobs, there is not one, but five separate positions that are all related to High UE organizations. Either WJF, RLF, or the Syndicates. Is this intentional?
6.) Cryo Judge is still listed for possible job for Lord of War. Why?
I'm sorry for taking so long to respond to this - real life has been SUPER busy.
As for your questions!
1. Staff have been discussing rigging off and on in meetings. We do want to see some development on our end to make the system beefier for players as a whole. I -think- part of the issue at present is that we're critically understaffed in terms of coding support. So yes, we want to bring players the robust rigging experience they deserve, but we don't have the ability to do so right now. I am currently taking free coding courses in my free time with the intention of getting a foot into that role eventually, but I doubt I'll have the chops to do this kind of work for some time.
2. Yes, we have discussed some of these issues, though at present we have come to no decisions. Some are in favor of merging explosives and munitions (me, for example), some aren't. We've considered ideas such as the one Crashdown proposed in that locked thread you're referring to. However, that also requires the kind of coding support we don't currently have. We also don't agree that every problem is a problem, which takes me to #3.
3. I did bring this up with staff after you posted the question here and the answer is no. We will not be lifting the freeze on firearms in the markets. There are at least three IC reasons for a Lord of War to have trading that aren't affected by the market freeze. One of them was mentioned by you in the locked thread. I understand you consider it an exploit, but the staff prefer that it function this way at present.
Though (imo) it feels a little unrealistic from an IC perspective, I personally consider it like a sort of lever to balance the impact of the freeze. The point is you don't have to think of it as an exploit. The staff team is aware it's possible and you are allowed to take advantage of it.
4. Charisma was overlooked when making the change. That's a mistake I can fix. Sorry about that. Strength is related to some equipment skills marked as useful in the archetype. It was included because of that.
5. I've never played a Lord of War (nor have I typically had need to interact with one), thus I'm not sure I have the knowledge to answer this question. The best I can say at present is that they were in the old list and staff felt they were relevant enough to be carried into the updated version. I have a feeling this question has to do with some of your comments in the locked Lord of War thread. I.E. Being locked out of syndicate jobs where you might have a role doing this, no Nick Cage style Lord of War opportunities in the mix, only high-end jobs that leave little to no RP and bar you from a big chunk of the PBase etc. I can set it as a topic for discussion at the next staff meeting. And feel free to clarify your thoughts if I'm misreading your intentions with this question.
6. This is also something I missed. Some of these archetypes pages pull jobs from other webpages they are linked to, and it's easy (for me because I'm a fledgling webmaster) to miss one when trying to find and cut all of those links. I'll work on fixing this - it was my idea to pull that role from all archetypes in the first place because it doesn't make sense imo. No one should be ICly 'seeking' a job as a Cryo Judge.
> Sorry about that. Strength is related to some equipment skills marked as useful in the > archetype. It was included because of that.
That means LoW archetype now has all stats marked as important/related... That's not really a guide to help you plan a character when it's literally "all the stats". I honestly think it should go back onto the drawing board and solve the identiity crisis, as it seems to be an archetype that then can do everything, but as a result all of it poorly, and what identifies most with the concept (handling guns) is... Such tiny part of the actual archetype and how it rolls in game.
It's more viable as something many months in when you got tons of UE, not something you can start as archetype in how it's set, and how it plays in game, where other archetypes can, to a point, just do their thing right away.
I honestly believe the Lord of War should be taken down, because it is not relevant to how Sindome plays in the slightest.
To me, the archetypes are not supposed to be classes per se, but they are something you can just pick as a concept and just run with til you get your bearings of how to actually play the game.
Given the complete lack of any firearm use in the gangs means that someone thinking they're going to be some sort of gun runner or weapons dealer is in for a really terrible onboarding experience. Hell, even deckers can and will have a jobs to do because people need grid nodes designed all the time. Not so for gun smiths.
Which leaves two paths for brand new players wanting to play gun smiths living that weapon modification life that you are actively advertising on your website.
Armory can be and has been gatekept by a single player character.
VS means living the corporate lifestyle and being segregated off from a majority of the player base while simultaneously still trying to figure out how not to lock yourself out of your cube. Oh, and no skillsofts for those four separate skills that are required to even start to do your job.
And if the Hall hires for this position without having to go through the Judge program, you may want to do something like... put up a job board advertising non-Judge positions.
The archetypes page I feel is part of the advertising of Sindome. I have arrived at your splash page and I am looking under what FEATURES you offer. And while they may not be classes, the archetypes are supposed to be representatives of different jobs you can play and supposedly have a fun time doing so.
So when a player can come to Sindome, see that they can play the archetype of a Lord of War just like Nicholas Cage in Lord of War, then while creating their character they see that they can take an advantage called Lord of War, just like Nicholas Cage in Lord of War... one shouldn't have to play for five years for the outside chance of joining a Syndie and finally being able to be the Nicholas Cage in Lord of War... for a Dome that doesn't use firearms.
The archetype needs to be taken down and put back into the oven until staff can actually figure out it's identity crisis of requiring all the stats and all the skills for none of the actual work.
When I first released the update in this thread, I mentioned that every stat is important for any archetype. The degree to which those stats are important may vary, but all in all, any given archetype stands to suffer in some way by not investing something into all of them in the long run. However, when I look at Lord of War, I see a role that has more room for malleability in skill/stat combinations than any other individual archetype. It isn't that LoW -needs- to invest heavily in all of those listed stats. It's more like you can customize a LoW-centric character in so many different complimentary ways that -any- combination of stat investment can be useful depending on the way you wish to RP it.
For example, we could say that a Ripper Doc needs x stats. If that Doc is also a tailor, then they will need y stats in addition to x. However, the combination of Ripper and tailor is not generally complimentary for the Ripper Doc archetype. I.E. You are a Ripper moonlighting as a tailor. Ergo, we don't list stats that are important for tailoring in the Ripper Doc archetype.
Conversely, if we take a look at the LoW archetype and conceptualize different types of focus and RP with regard to all of the skills that are complimentary to it, then the range of primary and support skills you could choose from encompass every stat you could possibly invest into.
A LoW that specializes in small arms, munitions and explosives requires a different stat-set than one that specializes in explosives, trade, and heavy weapons, and both skill-sets are complimentary for the archetype. Maybe an LoW doesn't just operate on the sidelines, but is a combatant as well. That's another stat-set that compliments the archetype. A LoW PC emulating the Nic Cage version might not engage in combat at all, but knows the ins and outs of every gun he pedals. I can think of one or two combat related stat you might invest in minimally if you're trying to play that version of an LoW, where you'd instead invest heavily when playing a combat-related one. He's probably also learned in every firearm skill even if he doesn't have the stats to use them in combat.
In short, the stat list for LoW isn't there to say you -must- have all of these to succeed in this role. Rather, it represents a range of stats linked to a variety of complimentary skill-sets and paths that one might choose within this archetype.
Now again, I don't have experience as to how much UE investment is actually needed to "be effective" in this role. Still, I've played other roles and not one of them has required fewer than three skills to perform to my satisfaction. At the end of the day they have all required months and months of investment before you start to find a kind of equilibrium with it. I'm hardly the first to say it, but UE progression and mechanical ability is a slow grind in SD. That's across the board in my experience. Of course it takes time to realize our characters as true reflections of the roles we envision for them - because archetypes aren't born, they're made.
So no, I'm not convinced that LoW is in a state of identity crisis. A Lord of War can be many things, but it can't be -everything-. Don't try to be everything. Pick a few skills you want to embody in the role and focus on those. Enjoy the character progression (rather than focusing purely on UE progression) it takes to get there. There are PCs I consider LoW right now that embody their roles very well and gave awesome RP and character progression on their way to finding their equilibrium as a LoW.
Remember that we're here for the journey.
At the end of the day, I don't personally see the need to include a disclaimer on the page about high UE requirements for the LoW archetype.
On the other hand, I can certainly see the merit of noting that the listed stats represent a range of potential due to the wide variety of complimentary skills associated with it.
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On another note, I've also seen a few suggestions to change
For disclaimer I play LoW, even picked the perk as I really liked the theme of it, and I lucked into place ICly that let me learn a lot icly. But if I didn't have that almost right out of the gate, and just read the archetype page + helpfiles I would be utterly and completely lost, especially as some of the stat and skill relations are a bit... Not that obvious, at least were not for me.
But because of IC circumstances I had the freedom to figure those out with little risk or issues but with endless experimentation potential so it turned out fine, and I am having great fun with it, even if the opportunity to actually use game mechanics of it is rare.
The way you describe the archetype here, with all the flexible options, I really love that. It gives you good idea where to put focus into and so on, so maybe it would also be worth adding to the description? I think it would be awesome, and it feels exciting the way you put down all the options, rather than current state.
I will leave the bigger discussion of LoW issues to a separate topic, as this one is for the archetypes page
Support skills are always at the mercy of the character population and their needs, and will require players to be making their own fun with them a lot of the time. It gets tricky though when it comes down to saying what is good enough to play or not, I wouldn't play any of the archetypes as designed on that page, but are the archetypes wrong because I don't like those builds, or are other players who play characters different than my design philosophy not going to have fun? I wouldn't say so.
Based on how little support some roles have while still flourishing in roleplay, if there is a salary job associated with a skill that has actual mechanics then that is a strong basis for listing an archetype for players to take inspiration from, players just need to take into account those are really inspirational starting points and not hard build guidance and they need to really investigate IC what they would be getting into with some skills.
