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Weather and Graffiti

It would be cool if putting up graffiti (and trying to remove it with solvent) were affected by weather.

Obviously this is super minor. But torrential rains and hurricane force winds do not make for ideal aerosol dispersal.

Graffiti needs an overhaul anyway. It doesn't make any sense. I get that for text based it has to be lined in rows when read. But there is no way gangers are spraying it that way. And I don't care how stupid a person is you should be able to -target- certain tags to remove them with over spray maybe affecting nearby tags. Maybe even perception can have something to do with how well you can take down tags without jacking up other ones you wish to save.

But more on point I agree, weather should have an effect.

I don't think we need to get super complicated with graffiti.

I do wish that it would passively "fade" over time though. There's some graffiti that's like a decade old.


I agree that we don't need to get super complicated. This was just something that I thought about with the current hurricane going on.

I don't like the idea of graffiti degrading over time. It is cool that some of it has lasted so long. There are murals and various pieces in various cities that have been there for decades and are understood to be off limits.

Most don't think it needs to be super complicated until you spend months tagging and removing it. THEN it actually matters.
There is graffiti that tells a story of past vandals and gangers. Having it degrade overtime would erase that, I think, and diminish some RP or just general character food for thought.

I do think it'd be nice if we could target specific graffitis to clean, and I don't think that's super complicated.

I realize I failed to actually address the idea of the thread-- just like how spraying solvent in an enclosed space can make you sick, I think high wind should make exposed areas more difficult to spraypaint or clean. It would be kinda cool, probably not always very important, but atmospheric.
As long as we're talking about graffiti, I have a couple of thoughts that I think would improve the system.

As others have mentioned, it is kind of silly that you cannot target specific tags to remove. I have rationalized that in my mind by imagining that the tags are all very close together and nearly on top of each other.

That being said, each 'street room' in the Mix represents a fairly large amount of space. Enough space that I think tags could be separate from each other.

I think it would be cool of the system were changed from being able to tag up individual messages, to a system that tracks the number of tags. The room description could be modified on a sliding scale. Perhaps along the lines of;

This block is (lightly, moderately, heavily) covered by (Sinner, Snake, etc.) graffiti.


This block is (L, M, H) covered by gang graffiti, of which (Sinner, Snake, etc) seems to be the most prominent.


This graffiti tells the story of a heavily contested block, with Sinner and Snake tags practically on top of each other in (light, moderate, heavy) amounts.

The ability to use the current system to 'write' specific message could be gated behind Artistry.

The assumption is that any 'ganger' can put up a crude tag to mark their turf. But in order for the graffiti to be recognizable and meaningful to non-gangers, it requires some level of artistic skill.

I am not sure how to balance the removal of 'artistry' tags.

In the system I am imagining, anyone could use solvent to reduce the overall level of graffiti in a room. (heavy > moderate, moderate > light, light > none).

Maybe some sort of meta-awareness of the more artistic tags. Tokens and NPCs could shout out or attack people trying to remove artistic tags. Or if there is SICnal, a random SICer could comment along the lines of, "Some bastard is defacing that ace graffiti outside of Westinghaus!! The (gang)s are going to be pissed!"

Don't have much to add, but I'd really like to see a graffiti artist/tagger archetype, rather than just something every ganger does. Throwing tags up is something pretty much anyone can do, sure, that's fine, but it'd be cool to have the ability to do big pieces gated behind skill/stats. Not only would they look more elaborate, but be harder to remove/tag over. It'd create a new niche for gang recruitment possibly and a lot of different RP. You could have a gang that's not doing so hot muscle-wise, but has this really ace street artist on it who's getting everywhere and clowning other gangs. I think it'd be cool in general to see gangs pledge more diverse people, rather than just meatheads. I know it happens here and there, but just saying, more would be nice.

And if this were to become a full archetype, it'd be nice to have more gear for graffiti. A high tech decal printer that can swap between all colors (needs batteries). Holo-paint cans that change color/message as you look at them repeatedly (expensive). Graffiti aftermarket chrome that lets you paint without a can, with the stuff coming out of your fingertips. Stuff like that, I'm sure more creative people can think of other stuff.

And I may be wrong here, but as far as I know, tagging doesn't actually do anything, beyond instilling gang stuff IC. It'd be cool to have turf coverage affect a gang's income/influence somehow, so people would have a reason to keep their turf clean and tag enemy turf.

There's nothing to stop someone from using artistry and the appropriate art objects (canvases, stickers, etc) to create more meaningful tags than typical to a can of spraypaint. I don't think graffiti needs an overhaul or to insert gang mechanics where RP should be taking place.
I do think graffiti needs some tweaking at the very least in the realm of cleaning specific tags, over-writing/editing existing tags, etc
The inconvenience of maintaining clean walls or walls with your tags is part of the mechanic. It costs chyen to spread the word. One way or another.
I've kind of noticed that there's a lot of things in the game players tout as purposefully inconvenient that I have my doubts on. I don't think this is purposefully obtuse, in fact I think most things aren't purposefully obtuse, I think this is just outdated and underbuilt.

The inconvenience of having to fix a wall with paint on it is already present in having to do the work of cleaning a tag or paint a wall, but having to clean an entire street of all graffiti just to remove the one tag you don't like is really silly, and I'm really doubtful that anyone thinks it's a meaningful feature rather than just a side effect of the current random-selection system of tagging and cleaning.

Being able to use paint to 'cross out' or blot over other tags instead of using solvent to clean them would also probably be themely, not all gangers or neutral graffiti artists are going to be assed to clean it using solvent when they could use what's on hand to just put it out of sight.

I think it is much more meaningful to have a system that promotes multiple PC's messages across rooms rather than one which consolidates the ideas of one person who wants to put in the least possible effort.
I don't think I would describe the graffiti system as underbuilt, at all. I think you could argue it's pretty complex all things considered.

Graffiti tracks different layers of paint, it can obscure artwork to deface, you can mess with security gear, you can remove parts of it at a time, you can make it more difficult to remove through various means. You can also use colors in some pretty interesting ways.

There are areas with layers of graffiti that tell stories going back years or even more than a decade. I've gone through areas needing to clear out some graffiti but not others, and it was a bit of a ballet of resource management and thoughtful application.

As a task for entry tier gangers and as a general storytelling device, I think you could argue there's a hell of a lot of code behind it.

I think in a cyberpunk future the fact graffiti is such a prominent feature of gang life feels honestly pretty silly and anachronistic in the first place. I don't think it needs any further coder time when so many other areas are so criminally undeserved, and an entire archetype devoted to it seems really unnecessary and out of place thematically.
I think graffiti is actually really themely, considering cyberpunk settings are centered around the rise of massive metropolitan areas an urban jungles, and graffiti is simply vandalism and often used as a way to establish street gang turf. I don't see what would make this fall out of fashion or what would replace it, vandalism and vulgar wall-scrawlings have been a part of human habits since forever. Graffiti is extremely themely to any cyberpunk setting, IMO.
No one said vandalism or establishing turf was unthemely. The same ways of doing it as in the 1970s just means a lack of imagination IMO.

I'm not saying it should change necessarily or be removed from the game or whatever, it's what it is. But it feels like a weird and trivial thing to devote coder attention to.