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  • What's that, more uses for Artistry?

Tailoring and Hemming
What's that, more uses for Artistry?

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Following on from conversation in OOC-Chat; giving tailors a command to get measurements of a character, then attach those measurements to a piece of fabric. This tailored clothing is then specifically tailored to the person, meaning that it comes off as "ill-fitting" or if anyone else wears it. Then let tailors re-hem it for someone else after the fact, if it gets stolen or whatever. Means that if you want a real novahot flash outfit, you need to meet up with the tailor in-person. Encourages RP, stops people doing weird dead-drop clothing deals (mostly).
By Wonderland at Jun 6, 2021 11:29 AM
I'm not wild about a couple details of this. Two people who have very similar body types should not have an ill-fitting modifier if they wear each other's clothes. It's also perfectly possible to give measurements and have something sized from afar. As described, this would be very bad for the secondhand clothing market.
By Rhicora at Jun 6, 2021 3:58 PM
I kind of want to say that ill-fitting clothing already exists. Ever been to the market to see something allow for 'generous cleavage to spill out' or 'the outline of taut abs' and your character has neither?
By alittlelonger at Jun 6, 2021 4:02 PM
Agreed. And you need a tailor to fix it. It's fine as-is.
By Rhicora at Jun 6, 2021 4:03 PM
I'm going to hijack (and revive) this thread with no survivors because I had a very similar idea for this and it should be a relatively simple change.

The problem with garments showing 'ample cleavage' on a flat-chested character is that it's just... Wrong. Yes, you can get it fixed, but you're just patching the problem and repeating it for the NEXT person who picks up the garment and finds it doesn't fit their build. So why not allow tailors to actually do what they supposedly do, and make clothes for the specific individual?

My idea is a command like 'measure ' or 'measure for ' which would allow the tailor to add a custom @worn (and maybe @wear, and the o variants) that will only show when that targeted alias wears the item, when anybody else does, it shows the regular, generic @worn. Of course, doing this would require high tailoring skill and would raise the value of the item, as it is literally hand-made for you. Perhaps the ill-fitting suggestion mentioned in the original post could apply ONLY to items that have custom @worns and were made for someone in particular?

Tailoring is VERY limiting in that sense because you cannot truly customize something after someone, this would fix that.

As a side-note, I'd love to see more players work on clothing lines to be sold in shops. More generic clothing. It's weird to me that everyone just gets custom clothing. Custom clothing should be a luxury, and likely more expensive than it is now. Pretty much everyone wears tailored clothing, even in the mix. It's weird. How many people IRL do you know wear tailored suits or custom jeans?

By Sly at Nov 17, 2021 10:28 AM
As a side-note, I'd love to see more players work on clothing lines to be sold in shops. More generic clothing. It's weird to me that everyone just gets custom clothing. Custom clothing should be a luxury, and likely more expensive than it is now. Pretty much everyone wears tailored clothing, even in the mix. It's weird. How many people IRL do you know wear tailored suits or custom jeans?

While I agree with your point that most characters should be wearing "off the rack" stuff, this is what the "help clothing" file says on the subject:

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!

Items should be UNIQUE! Unless someone is paying you to create a new article of clothing because they lost theirs, or you are selling a clothing line (and have an actual order for an item), you should not create duplicates. It adds to the bloat of the game. Creating multiple copies of an item and selling them at the market is FORBIDDEN and you will be punished WHEN (not if) we find out.

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!

By Blackbird71 at Nov 19, 2021 8:20 AM
IN some parts of the dome your gameplay can be seriously hampered by the ability to find and afford a tailor or second hand tailored clothing. Sometimes spending as much on a set of clothes as you would a new motorcycle or jumping through many hoops. I worry that this would simply make life harder for PCs in certain areas and things yet MORE lucrative for tailors when they are already very well compensated.

I love the idea of an item tailored to tall=skinny or average-hefty or whatever but, as much as I like the idea from a mechanical standpoint, I worry about how it will impact the game world as a whole.

By Grey0 at Nov 19, 2021 8:25 AM
I think the @measure-for idea is a great one. I don't even think you need a special 'ill-fitting' message -- it's something that tailors could put into a @worn as needed.

I also SO MUCH AGREE with wanting more branded, off the rack clothing. Over-branding is such a big part of cyberpunk and we don't see it really here, which is too bad.

By Pavane at Nov 19, 2021 11:26 AM
If players want items with generic descriptions they can purchase them, but an item's literal description is known to players, not to characters. A piece of clothing can be custom written but still be generic clothing IC, I don't really see the purpose or appeal of player-created clothing which is just the same description copy-pasted over and over.
By 0x1mm at Nov 19, 2021 11:56 AM
@Grey0

I've never heard of anyone struggling to get work from a tailor anywhere in the dome, topside or mixside. You see week-old immies wearing tailored clothes pretty often. I do vehemently agree tailors make quite a bit more money than most other archetypes, however, especially when you take into account risk and effort. Unless you're out in the wastes or something but I mean... Pretty reasonable not to get tailored clothes there.

@Pavane

I didn't even think about that, but it's true. Most player brands never really become a staple because it's all custom and generally affordable, there's not much consistency. But if custom clothing/materials were more expensive, and tailors had to mainly focus on creating clothing lines as a result ( you work for Josephine's/L.A. mode/whatever, and they provide you with the materials to make them a clothing line, then you get some pay based on how well the lines sold). That to me, seems much more interesting than just going 'okay custom coat, that'll be 2k plus materials'. There's often little roleplay that goes into it, too.

Hell, if you want to go nuts with it, have players be able to design some of the armor that's sold, if they're appropriately competent. Even if it would just be Du-Wear Fall edition that looks a little different, or a Du-Wear alternative with a different name and descriptions, but same stats. Get RP, competition and brands out there.

By Sly at Nov 19, 2021 12:10 PM
If I was going to encourage more 'clothing lines', here's how I would do it:

1. I would implement some version of @measure-for, where a tailor can create a specific @worn message for a specific person.

2. I would recruit either some players via fix-it or better yet some PC tailors to create a wider range of 'off the rack' clothing with strong branding. 'Branded' clothing couldn't be retailored, but it could be @measure-for-ed.

3. I would raise the price on raw materials by around a factor of 5.

Then you'll see people wearing their branded clothing a lot more, but they will be able to have custom descriptions that fit with their personal style or writing, body shape, or the like.

I think the reason we encourage people to wear tailored clothes is to encourage creativity, which is a good thing. I don't really want to lose that, but I would like that creativity to encourage CP themes like over-market-saturation of major brands. I think making everyone's custom description be of their Gucci & Klein jacket or their ADINIKE boyshorts or their JUICY genuine baggy jeans would keep creativity but emphasize the way corporate branding is everywhere in Cyberpunk.

By Pavane at Nov 19, 2021 12:16 PM
Ubiquitous custom clothing is just a facet of Withmore's unique reality, along with cabinets that cost as much as cars and century-old firearms and 16th Century armor pieces. Player-created brands have had some success here and there, but in general player-created generic items have always been a non-starter despite it being tried many, many times... because they're boring.

I agree that custom armor would be cryo (and I advocated for it repeatedly) but it's been shot down because it would cause bloat in the database.

Each time the character-restricted clothing topic comes up it feels like a solution in search of a problem. I can barely remember an occasion where a character persistently wore something that was at odds with reality, and I think players would be surprised how little their novella-length descriptions are getting read at all.

By 0x1mm at Nov 19, 2021 12:24 PM
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