Open up crime on Green
Less burden on GMs

I strongly dislike it, both gold and green see plenty of crime as is, and it is intended to be much higher bar to go after people on green. Removing the need for xhelp there makes executing hit and runs there extremely trivial and removes the point of that extra security present, even if you fix the NPC judge response.

Speaking as a relatively new player, I don’t think this is a good idea.
One of the things that’s been made very clear to me since starting is that Green is intentionally different from The Mix. The xhelp requirement feels like part of that — it’s a safeguard that makes Green feel like a place where longer-term corporate characters and slower plots can exist without getting randomly derailed. That clarity is actually reassuring, not restrictive.
The idea that this could just be reverted if it doesn’t work also worries me. Even as someone who hasn’t been around forever, it’s obvious that you can’t really undo the impact of a bad change once it’s live. Characters die, stories end, people get burned out, and that all sticks around even if the rule gets put back later.
On the Judge side, I’m also not convinced automation is the fix. If Judge NPCs already don’t behave reliably, making them faster and more aggressive without staff oversight sounds like it would just create more confusion. Having staff involved in serious Green incidents feels important — it gives some confidence that things are being handled intentionally, not just by dice and scripts.
I also don’t really see this reducing GM workload in practice. It feels like it would just shift the work to after things go wrong, with more disputes and cleanup instead of upfront checks.
I'm happy to hear feedback on my take, and any reasons that people think I'm incorrect

I think we should still have to xhelp because the world needs to be able to react to our actions. A crime on Green is very different than a crime on Red, it stands out more because it is so rare. I mean that in Red there's a ton of ambient crime going on.

Think about it from the other end, how is it fair that in middle of heavily guarded sector someone can pull up a car, jump off, kill you, and just drive off with your body, and no one will be able to provide ANY information about it?

It's a two sided street, for every crime there also should be consideration for the victim. This removes consideration from the victim entirely, just hopes that the murderer leaves some trail behind, or talks to someone and so on, and not just does a no-talk-no-corpse vat.

I get where you're coming from Froggy, but the current system doesn't really work for anybody because it just blocks the anything happening at all for a huge wedge of the time. I think there has to be a middle ground that can be worked out somehow where it's possible to actually do crime without the artificial blocker of needing staff approval when there's a solid chance that maybe they aren't online or able to respond for a significant period of time.

(Edited by xXShadowSlayerXx at 4:49 am on 12/15/2025)

I wonder if there may be a difference when we're talking about crime here…

Planned crimes such as bombings or car theft, for which an xhelp is definitely required, versus seeing your rival walking down the street and having to act now or never. Is the second one more of the crime we're referring to in this thread?

Yeah extremely not against removing the need for staff, but this would require some bigger changes than just enabling a free for all against corporate people with no, relatively, safe place for them to go out and mingle. The topside non combatants are players too, not just victims, and corpsec is not there to babysit everyone whenever online either.

So this would require some much bigger changes than just drop the policy, or people really will just hunker down to flats and being driven around with escort.

Here's a couple spitballed ideas about systems that could make crime in secure sectors harder without needing GM resources. These are just spitballed, and are not definitive. I feel they would represent themely uses of corporate resources and technology though. Curious as to the thoughts of others and keen to hear ideas from others.

- More active responses from NPC law enforcement.
- Increased reliance on player Corpsec personel
- NPC bodyguards for corporate personel above certain ranks, not dissimilar to gang npcs in the mix.
- Potentially NPC bodyguards for hire?
- Could charisma be linked to bodyguard effectiveness/cost?
- Sic snapshots in areas where violent crime begins, sending involved/present sicaliases/ids to databases in the relevant authorities. Perhaps camera snapshots with physical descriptions too?

(Edited by xXShadowSlayerXx at 5:35 am on 12/15/2025)

Ok, sure.

"The current system works because staff in the response will usually provide SOME data as the situation is developing, it allows for counter reaction. When that's not present, you have seriously weird IC situations for the corporate side to navigate, like the "so… this rare, brutal, obvious thing happened and no one can even tell what was the car?!". Try playing this off icly in a very policed sector, it gets jarring almost immediately."

Having NPC judges patrolling the sector shouldn't mean they are hiding in every faux-bush waiting for violent crime or a theft to take place. Modifying this with the need to leave a long and detailed note, as I mentioned, would give staff the ability to relay witness testimony or ring cam footage or whatever you need to you, just maybe not in an instant gratification timeline.

The Judges are still there and can still come rushing to save you and the evidence won't vanish with the perpetrator, it would just make people more inclined to actually try.

The duality of corporate players seems to be "why won't the mixer try me" and "HEY WHY IS THIS MIXER TRYING ME?!?"

When I first responded to this thread my mind first went to planned crimes such as bombings and not crimes that were based on a need for swift action on the part of the criminal such as killings. Sorry for any confusion.

(Edited by svetlana at 6:19 am on 12/15/2025)

"You are taking this way to personally. You are posting from the view of an institutional corporate player who wants predictability and I am posting from the mindset of an opportunistic player who hates having to do xhelps and sit wait for hours and maybe even days to do something. That's it."

The irony of this is beyond any charts. I'll just quietly ignore you going onwards.

I don't see the irony. You invoked your own labor, your own emotional investment, you tried to tone police me, and now you're making a theatrical disengagement.

I merely stated how the idea could work logically and within the frame of an entertaining text based game, which at the end of the day that is all Sindome is.

Feel free to stop replying to me or ignore me. When you reply to me though you invite response. I don't feel like I've done anything to warrant your hostility or frustrations and I hope you have a better day.

If you want to kill a corpcit, kill them on Gold. Murder is supposed to be uncommon on Green, automated responses will not necessarily function correctly, and there are generally too few CorpSec players to increase reliance on them. I think automated bodyguards would be too much of a hassle, too likely to break, and likely ineffective (either in that they're basically a paper bag, or that they're 'too strong').

Well, removing that safety has following consequences:

- Corpies die a lot more, but still have very fixed income and high cost in representative clothes alone.
- Resulting from that, corpies doing a lot less in the open, as why would you expose yourself even more?
- Security in armor about all the time and ready to respond, no downtime hangs.
- Still no real way to strike down into the mix back directly, especially with most corps having singular agent on roster

So why would we want to drop this? People get murdered just fine, there likely is need to put more effort into luring people out instead of going to the easy camp on green option but that's a separate problem entirely.

- Corpies die a lot more, but still have very fixed income and high cost in representative clothes alone.
This is a good thing. Corpies should die more. The game revolves around mix. vs topside struggles. Corpies should not be isolated from the rest of the game, them dying is a HUGE pathway to a lot of roleplay.

- Resulting from that, corpies doing a lot less in the open, as why would you expose yourself even more?
Mixers die all the time with lesser salaries and lesser safety nets and they still hang out in bars and clubs way more often than corpies do.

- Security in armor about all the time and ready to respond, no downtime hangs.
This is badass.

- Still no real way to strike down into the mix back directly, especially with most corps having singular agent on roster
Corps have budgets and WJF protection. Bounties (both Hall and non-Hall) are an immediate way to respond as well as WJF crackdowns.

"Mix has the insane safety net of being able to hustle 20-30k a week out of NPCs alone if you play the system smart, and then whatever you make out of players on top with very wide range of that income available. Topside you just do not have those opportunities, yes you can embezzle to top up your salary, but unless you've picked artistry, you likely just won't be making much more without going into "sell your corp secrets" path."

Why aren't all or the majority of mixers swimming in chyen then? If it was commonplace to make this amount of money everyone would be fully chromed, equipped, and driving Ferrari's and feel zero need to play against each other for monetary gain. I mean think of the poor corporations that are being financially outpaced by the mixers. I think that might be an exaggeration.

Mixers get killed for little to no reason all the time. I would even make the claim that mixers go corporate because they know it is unlikely that something will happen to them topside because they oocly know that there are safeguards in place to foster that kind of environment. Am I saying it is wrong thematically or design wise? No, not really, I am saying that I personally just dislike it and would be thrilled to see less barriers. As it stands corporates can still be killed, the xhelp and aligning of the stars just seems to be a stigma and hurdle that makes people think that it's not worth it.

As I stated in another post, murder is the extreme example I choose, but there are plenty of other crimes that are less severe you could mention.

Tl;Dr: We need to give everyone more reasons to spend time on Gold.

Crime (even violent) is already nearly unrestricted on Gold outside of HQs, but people don't actually spend time there so there are limited opportunities. Gold is too expensive for Immies, criminals are worried about running into a Judge, and many topsiders have no reason to leave Green. We need to get people to go to the same places naturally because physical presence means interactions and RP.

Problem 1 – Topsiders don't want to go to Gold:

-> Give PCs more reasons to physically go to work. Whether it's a requirement to check in at their office (track scans maybe?) or more punishment for lack of doing their job.
-> Actually have consequences for PCs being ineffective at their job. (Work expectations can help with staff load since some topside jobs serve OOC functions as well. Perhaps try to move more staff work to PCs where possible.)
-> Move some services/shops from the Green to Gold. Make Green more residential so that you have to leave.
-> Noise complaints if there are too many people in an apartment on Green or Blue. No house parties. Gotta have your events in a public venue. (Not sure if this is actually a problem.)

(As an aside: I -believe- there are some service Mixer PCs who are currently employed topside who have not worked a single shift in months. Ignoring your job is not just a Corpie problem. All jobs in the game serve to drive interaction so you should not be permitted to idly collect a paycheck.)

Problem 2 – Mixers don't want to go to Gold:

-> Reduce WJF patrols to only on Green, Blue, and at the HoJ.
-> Extend CorpSec turf and make them police Gold. New Light is NLM turf. Soma is VS turf. Skywatch is PRI turf… WJF can own the roundabout. (EDIT: This may just mean converting some of the Judge NPCs to CorpSec NPCs and maybe making them less aggressive? Maybe they only care about people who have direct beef with their corp. Literally like a gang.)
-> Add another manhole on Gold. (I have a location in mind but I'm not sure if I should discuss here.)
-> Reduce the prices of some topside activities. This one may not be the biggest deal, but many places have a steep entry fee that makes them unappealing even for corpies.
-> Make the lev free if you're just going between Red and Gold. (Maybe charge on exit rather than entrance or just double the charge for entry when on Green and eliminate it on Gold and Red.)

Problem 3 – Topsiders and Mixers are actively discouraged from interacting:

-> Back off the class-divide stuff in general. This doesn't build theme much in my mind and just serves to divide the playerbase.
-> There are legit reasons for Corpies and Mixers to interact.
-> There are consequences already for corporate espionage if someone is leaking data.
-> Corpies already aren't really allowed on Red nearly at all. Class-warfare policies just move the barrier even further upwards. Make Gold more of a place for open mingling and interaction. It isn't weird until a Corpie is sneaking a mixer into their pad on Green or is disguising to go visit Red.


EDIT: Maybe make some automated social events that happen on Gold? For when there aren't service mixers at a bar to actively call people in. The Karaoke place also would be nice to have back. It seems popular.

(Edited by ikunaut at 12:52 pm on 12/15/2025)

> If you want to kill a corpcit, kill them on Gold.

What if that corpcit is never on Gold? And even on Gold - if they drive everywhere and sit in corporate towers? They'll spend very little time being at all vulnerable.

I am a little confused about the comments about "Then attacking Mixers should be fair game."

What does this mean exactly? Corpies can attack Mixers on Green or Gold with the same guidelines as Mixers attacking Corpies, it's both crime.

What is being implied here?

"I am a little confused about the comments about "Then attacking Mixers should be fair game."

What does this mean exactly? Corpies can attack Mixers on Green or Gold with the same guidelines as Mixers attacking Corpies, it's both crime.

What is being implied here?"

There is an imbalance of expectations between mixers and corporates.
If you are a mixer, and you go topside, kill whatever random corpie, and then express yourself back into the mix… That's fine, it's acceptable and supported by the narrative, granting you all the protection that hiding in the mix offers.

If a corporate citizen wanted to kill a random mixer topside, good luck getting institutional backing for it and to cover your butt. You may swing it once in a while, but this just does not align with the expectations, as far as I know. And we do have quite a few characters of the "kill corpie coz corpie" who even if it may lead to pretty thin RP, do enjoy the institutional protection that is the mix.

Another part of those expectations is shrouding. Corpies and mixers share gold, but it's really in bad form for corporates to hide themselves topside, while OOCly we know that gold is about as secure as money hidden in a Candy Land box, ICly you are supposed to, mostly, act like it is safe - there are judges and corpsec everywhere, why wouldn't it be?

Now imagine if you then had to travel the mix uncovered almost all the time, after being wanted for whatever topside crime. This is the state in which corporate citizens all the time - exposed and vulnerable, because any of the hoods may be mixer who just wants to kill a random corpie for whatever reason and then immediately flee to the mix for relative safety.

And that's where green comes into play, where you can OOCly unclench, put a nice outfit on and enjoy your life, because if someone will kill you there, it's very unlikely to be have been random; so if your data game is not abysmal, you should at least have a hint of something brewing.

I would be fine with more institutional backing for corpies doing bad things to mixers. I don't think crime should all be done the same way. Any time I see things being done out side the tried and true oft repeated methods, I get a little giddy. I'd rather encourage that creativity by making crime possible in more ways that trying to force everyone to do crime the same way.

Sure, in theory a corpie can also get a buggy, mhm plates, and attack exactly like a mixer would and use mix to do the lose trail but… Yeah. May well just be a mixer.

I would -love- more corruption allowed in using the corpie powers to murder mixers, but sadly so far my experience of trying to use IC bias to blame specific mixers got strong pushback every time on trying to get the corpo powers/chy to go after them.
I am very open to those type of plots, but yeah, so far I had extremely little luck making it happen.

I think we have a problem and I don't think we have a solution for it.

There is no meaningful way to enforce standards and game universe things without some kind of staff presence. Players can and will do a good job keeping the universe solid on their own, for a time. But without intentionality it will drift as various player desires and intentions shift.

Code can help with this, make the judges more automatically responsive, make automated corpsec escorts, add disguises maluses on gold, and green escalating to make it harder to avoid notice in the more surveiled levels. There's a lot of little solutions here that can help with the penalty of removing staff oversight, but, ultimately staff oversight is necessary if you want a bespoke world and not simply a player sandbox.

1.) Withmore has 2/3rds the population of Mega-City One living in a city the size of Los Angeles. Saying Green is going to be crime free is ridiculous.

2.) Leaving a note of "I'm planning on killing Joe Baka sometime in the next few days. If they're on Green then they're on Green." should qualify as XHELP for Crime. Then just simply xhelping "Moving in for kill" and leaving a post kill note should be enough for staff to be able to piece together any clues they wish for the ambient population to have.

3.) The duality of corporate players seems to be "why won't the mixer try me" and "HEY WHY IS THIS MIXER TRYING ME?!?"

This. All of this. It is something that seemingly permeates the OOC boards and discussions and is a reason why I've really stopped suggesting ideas for improvement. Anything resembling any sort of swinging up or evening the odds a little is met with pages of argument about how if players were minorly inconvenienced by X that they would heavily bleed a reason to just kill other characters instead of their normal "roleplaying" of wordlessly snapping necks in sewers. "If you don't allow us to continue to abuse you, we will abuse you worse" I feel is a common theme found among many posts on these boards. Brawn must always triumph over brain in every situation and any insinuation that the current power balance might be upset is met with doomsaying from the heavens.

Still trying to figure out how I can make this 120K+ a week profit margin through hustling in Red. Must not be doing enough… or Chuk is holding out on me.

I will add that if people did more involved crime against those juniors than just no-talk-vats, they may be more inclined to be available.

Food for thought.