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Money smuggling and other endeavors

A paper wrap envelope item already exists in the game but it's not publicly available to the regular folks.

I suggest that with a piece of paper, you can use the verb envelope, taking as argument any amount of chy on you. You're given an envelope, which can be unwrapped, revealing an amount of chy. Make sure this can be slipped beneath doors, and stored in other places. It basically would have the same size and properties as a letter.

This would be great for dead drops, not limited to wallets with 15K or 10K chy. Hide them in alleyways, slip them under doors, put them in lockers...

...or birthday gifts to friends!
Very mafia.
I don’t think dud wallets were such a bad thing. As someone who utilized that skill, I had to laugh at the ingenuity of the players for adapting to dips. You can always target a specific item to steal from someone, so if you suspect they have multiple wallets, take a chance and type 2nd/3rd etc.
I'd like to re-plug this idea because there's been several instances over the last few years and going forward where this type of item would have been extremely handy. The single-used delivery containers provide a proof of concept where a one use container that is trashed once emptied has some good functionality.

The other functionality that would really put this up there for me would be making it work with the slip verb so that cash could be put under doors.

Money is the obvious function for this but photographs are fairly common dead-drops as well and do fall under the wallet-able items already so could work well here also.

I wonder if the disposable credchips can be slipped under doors. I forget, but those were developed as a way to sort of handle money in dead drops, and they work great for that. Also, you can already slip photos under doors, but I guess hiding the contents from anyone watching could be potentially helpful.
In my opinion credchips, of any type, are not sufficiently integrated into the rest of the game to be anything like a real alternative to cash and that is especially true the Mix. Adding two bank trips into every transfer plus a fee plus being useless at lots of places meant they were going to have pretty low real utility to players.

Plus an envelope full of cash is just much cooler than a prepaid Cafe Bizou gift card.

I agree about the bank trips, though I think a fee is reasonable. After all, it's very small and envelopes will definitely cost something as well. Perhaps an ATM of sorts in Red that can only dispense or deposit disposable cred chips would help, no cash withdrawals since it will just get raided.
I don't really feel like a credchip has the same utility, can't bundle photos in, would be just weird to slip under doors. I've personally used credchips 3 times in like 5 years and never willingly.

To me, pretty much every incarnation of credchips has felt like players trying to force them to be a thing when they don't actually have much benefit, several downsides, and are kind of like negative cool factor. A locked briefcase with wimpy keychain in it doesn't have the same flash to it as a briefcase packed with stacks of cash, and an envelope stuffed with cash is just a fixture of noir and crime settings.

Plus envelopes could be flagged for letters too which gives them a nice dual utility for law-abiding citizens, could have different colour options even for gifts and things like that.

There is a physical limitation as to how much cash can be slipped under a door in a single bundle.

As for photos, why not load them onto a memchip?

Because that's not how anyone exchanges photos in practice and requires a bunch of extra equipment most characters don't have or would ever care to have.

Dragging realism into it feels counterproductive to enabling actual gameplay to me but I don't see any reason why you couldn't fit 10,000c in an envelope easy (and by extension under a door) considering there's canon 1000c notes.

Whenever I see Ideas like this, I have to remind myself that information leakage is part of the game. It creates RP opportunities.

Need to drop a bunch of photos but don't trust your contractors roommate? Use a delivery method that isn't sliding it under their door. (And requires them to leave the safety of their place to retrieve the data.)

Need to drop tens of thousands of chyen but can't slip it under the door? Use a delivery method...

Need to do some mafia style, "sorry for your loss" style envelope hand-off at a funeral? Pass the chyen in a wallet. One wallet isn't enough? Cue the rumor mill about Don Greedy-Sama wanting more than one wallet as a show of fealty. Who does that guy think he is? Tony Soprano?

What "information leakage" exists in any of the examples you've given that wouldn't also exist with this idea? A wallet is not an envelope and if we're talking about realism then why on earth would anyone be exchanging wallets for business transactions?

I'm not asking for alternative existing ideas, I'm suggesting a new one for something, in many years of active play would have been quite useful and not otherwise handled by any existing object or objects.

I think an envelope item would be neat nonetheless, I just thought to mention disposable credchips in case you weren't aware of them. Always rooting for new ways to make stuff look cool, and handing wallets off to people or dead dropping them is kinda lame, which is why I was begging for disposable cred chips in the first place.
I like the idea of disposable packaging. I think. My first impression at least. Envelopes. Paper bags. Nasty wrapping paper. All kinds of things.

I don't think I'm a fan of any form of sliding money (or other valuable goods) under doors. I am far more open to the idea of removing the sliding of things under doors entirely than I am to letting money and valuables be slid under doors. Heck, I'd be open to the bank removing transfers as well in order to harden against hacking.

I feel this way as I personally want to see certain behavior be incentivized or encouraged or even required. One example is exposing your PC by getting out or letting people in. I think that game design that pushes players to expose their PCs is generally more favorable that game design that reduces one's need to expose their PCs.

This is my initial opinion at least.

The quixotic activism against the malignancy of electricity and other terrible spooky actions at a distance is, if nothing else, tireless. Zerzan would tell you he was proud, if only he knew how to use a web browser.

Still as you note Grey, wireless cash transfers do exist along with you know, other examples of post-Han Dynasty innovations, so while the concept of folded paper might have appeared to the Luoyang imperial court as a brave new technological revolution, you'll find after some thought that this would actually aid in enabling the potential anarcho-primitivist economy of fictional futuristic America that you're hungry for.

I could do with fewer attacks on my person 0x1mm. If you don't like my opinion, I get it. I have no idea why you feel the need to attack me though.

And while I don't much care for bank transfers, there ARE reasons to avoid them in some circumstances at least. No matter how much you choose to declare your opinions as facts or insult others for having other opinions than your own, such behavior doesn't make said opinions any less valid.

I respect your take on the matter but it does not, on their own, sway my views at this point.

You also have to go to the bank to make a transfer. Or take money out. With door slipping, you could have it go both ways without ever stepping outside. That's an obvious problem, even though I do like the idea. The game does need to be designed to avoid full-time apartment dwelling, even if it leads us down the Luddic Path. Of course you still need to go out and buy the packaging material, so that is a counterargument. It's worth noting all advantages and disadvantages of applying any change.

However, 0x1mm, if we're clutching pearls over being anti-tech, you were just talking about how credchips suck and you like cold hard cash in paper envelopes better, so I call foul. Yes, I'm joking.

I feel like I just traveled back to kindergarten but the kids all use chat gpt to talk like fancy people.

If you disagree with someone's opinion, then disagree and post a counter. You're here to partake in healthy debate to further develop an idea thread.

If you can't do that, move on with your life, please.

That is true Batko, you did trap me in a bit of hypocrisy there.

In any case I'm not making any personal attacks on anyone, and I'm not sure why it's being declared that I have: I'm pointing out that explicitly acknowledging the existence of wireless money transfer while arguing that an envelope would be a step too in far gives the appearance of technophobia in a cyberpunk setting... I took it as a given no one would think that was a real accusation since this is a futuristic game discussion had on a digital message board.

If things can be slipped under doors two ways it's news to me but I'm still doubtful this is actually enabling any gameplay that doesn't exist already? What does putting money in a room accomplish? It has to leave eventually? How would this be different than a character getting money transferred to them while they remained behind closed doors? Chyen can neither be spent nor generated inside a closed room so I see no scenario where this does anything mechanically destabilizing at all.

This is to add there's already quite a few protected object transfers mechanisms that requires no exposure between any two given characters so I really can't imagine a scenario this would newly enable. However it's kind of a tangent since that mechanic is really just an afterthought to the central idea here, which I think has enough utility on its own regardless.

Well yes, it does have to leave, which is why it being able to be slipped both ways is potentially harmful. You always need to go to the bank to make a transfer, but you can sit at home to receive one. That's because getting things done requires you to go outside, and in order to get things done, you'll likely need to pay people.

While it does sound fun from afar, if one could slip money in and out of an apartment, they could easily set up a war room of safety where they could hire solos, receive confirmation from them, pay them, get paid by others, etcetera without ever even risking a step outside for a moment, until their finances within their apartment ran out.

I must be missing something, assuming for a moment that slip works both ways (I thought it was only a verb on the outside of doors, but that's a tangent) then let's take it to the extreme version as a thought experiment:

You have a character X, who stays inside a room and never leaves it. They remain there until the end of time and will never be exposed to another character directly.

Character A passes money to X through the door. This money is now effectively removed from the game since X cannot do anything with this money in the room.

Character B later is given money by X back through the same mechanism, and the money now re-enters the game ecosystem through interaction with B who is not inside the room.

Logically, A has effectively passed money to B without having to interact with them face-to-face but no other change to the game has occurred mechanically. However this could also have happened through several other mechanisms, in fact there's quite a lot of ways to transfer money between characters without them interacting in the same physical space.

So I'm still a bit lost how this is different or better than bank transfers, dead-drops, escrow hand-offs, tricksy vehicle mechanics for object transfers, or any of the other existing mechanics.

I just checked, it's definitely possible on both ends of a door.

It's not about occupying the same physical space as the person you're dealing with, it's about exposing yourself at all. Bank transfers, dead drops, hand-offs, etcetera, all require you to go outside where the mean world can do mean things to you, such as have the nefarious silent katana shroud kill you. This can happen at the bank, the condom machine you hide things behind, the cube you're setting up, etcetera. It will almost never happen inside of your apartment.

Yes however it's not correct that 2-way money slip protects a character from exposure, as I show above to remain unexposed to the game world, X must remain in the locked room forever and if they don't, their exposure is exactly the same as any other mechanism.

The lack of exposure only exists if you 'clip' the event in time to not include them later leaving same as the money came in. In effect it's a delay, but not a separation, equally true of a dead drop or bank transfer where the part where someone has to return to the bank to access it isn't included in the act.

To take your War Room example for instance, in that case character X is sequestered in a room and paid by character A to fund whatever. X remains in that room until B, C, D have all been paid and the funds from A are extinguished, then X leaves the room.

Now while in the locked room it is true that X is not subject to direct character interactions for the most part, however at no point is the total amount of exposure by chyen or characters ever less than if A paid B, C or D by other means. A needed to take the money to X in the first place, creating the 'input' exposure to the money and themselves, and B, C and D needed to receive the money from X creating the 'output' exposure to the money and themselves. X needed to enter the room, and later leave it. The total amount that characters are exposure to the outside world is the same as if the room never existed at all.

If anything this scenario is much less useful and more dangerous because it creates a central location of failure and requires characters to (nearly) occupy the same locations at the same point in time, which is not required by other methods (wireless requires same time but allows for distance, dead-drops require a shared space but allow for different points in time).

However even if that was an advantageous mechanic to use, I'd actually argue that anything that encouraged characters to be doling out cash money to one another is a big gameplay benefit and the hypothetical scenario is preferable to a wire transfer or dead-drop. And even if it was less preferable I'd still argue anything that encourages the movement of money in the economy by any means is a good thing.

The only gameplay scenario I can think of where a chyen deposit into a room creates less overall total exposure to characters or cash, would be if the locked room contained a business-account linked store register and a sequestered character X whitelisted as a cashier, while character A slips cash under the door, character X deposits it into the register, and character B (the owner of the business account) withdraws from the bank. In that situation you could, in theory, transfer funds from A to B through X across both[/] space and time with two different input and output locations.

However I'm not sure if that scenario is 1) actually valuable enough worth the complexity, 2) even possible in the current configuration of businesses and associated doors, and 3) a problem if it did happen since it would require so much effort and resources for such a benign outcome.

It seems to me like potential problems are very conceptual and if it proved to be a serious problem it would be easy enough to just turn off the slippable flag to address it.