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Death Level Hint
How dead am I?

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Being so dead you have to clone out and being just a little dead (a doctor can revive you) kind of looks the same to the player of the dead character. Given how emotional a death can be I can understand why some players choose to log off so they can cool off when their character dies.

When you are dead dead, this is not issue. Nobody notices or minds. But when you are just a little dead and do this, it's easy to think that the person is just trying to dodge RP and consequences. If they had known that they could easily be revived then they just might have stuck around.

So I would propose some kind of indicator be put in place so a player can definitively know if their character is dead dead and can safely walk away to cool off for a bit or just a little dead and might need to carry on the RP soon.

If something like this is already in place then feel free to ignore me.

By Grey0 at Oct 28, 2020 10:08 AM
I'd actually argue against this only from the tension standpoint. When you see that red scroll and you don't OOCly know if you're a corpse, or have a chance to be revived, its a rush. Granted it might not be a rush you want, but that waiting period where you're seeing if you're saved or cloning out can be an intense and fun part of the combat/life/death system.
By Dreamer at Oct 28, 2020 10:11 AM
I agree with Dreamer.

However, I think if there isn't an in-game hint for this for the first time a player dies - there should be.

By ReeferMadness at Oct 28, 2020 10:13 AM
A notification that you've been revived would be excellent. I've been in situations where someone's dumped my character off to be zapped back at a NPC and I've sat for 10 minutes in a brownout not realizing I was alive.
By TalonCzar at Oct 28, 2020 10:15 AM
I check to see if I've been revived.

"Look" does the trick.

On the overall idea:

Improving general awareness of the possibilities is what's called for here. Awareness of the actual state of the flatlined-or-worse character is meta. You're unconscious, you ain't doing squat. Dead, you're doing even less.

It's a good call-out, though. Help death already provides this information, and it only takes a small amount of experience to understand whether you're likely to be revivable in a given instance.

By beandip at Oct 28, 2020 10:16 AM
@Dreamer I don't like sitting staring at an unmoving screen for twenty minutes while I wait to be revived or possibly even corpse cloned. Red Scroll hits and I walk away because there is literally nothing I can do. I'll check back in to see if the cloning message played after a while, but I'm in no way sitting there biting my nails, because odds out, my body is in a sewer somewhere.

in every other way death has been 'normalized'in SD, to the point that people casually kill one another without any regard for the potential to creatively inflict pain and teach lessons. If it becomes more beneficial for an assailant to keep me alive, then I'll tend to agree with you.

I think NPC ally ransoms or violent reactions to dead PCs could maybe be a start.

By RedSteelButterfly at Oct 28, 2020 10:17 AM
I love the tense feeling of not knowing if you'll vat out or be revived (sometimes you already know it before the five minutes passes) but it can be a bit disconcerting for newer players, no? Any of them could chime in?
By villa at Oct 28, 2020 10:17 AM
@Grey0, what should/would happen in your @idea if someone progresses from flatlined to dead-dead?
By beandip at Oct 28, 2020 10:18 AM
I want to point out that my main concern is for a player to be looked down on because they died and logged out. I think it is fine if things are left as is if we are also fine with that happening and not acting like it is some kind of bad behavior on the player's part. I am not saying that this is common but I have personally witnessed complaints when the victim is revived and asleep. Comments about how that was cheesy when the "offending" player literally has no way to make an informed choice.

By Grey0 at Oct 28, 2020 10:22 AM
I agree with Talon in that a notification when you re-gain consciousness, both from dying state and other sources of unconsciousness, would be appropriate.

There is one when you log in, so why not have one for these cases?

By PCow at Oct 28, 2020 10:23 AM
I am very open to options. I fully agree that any and all of them provide the player with information the PC can not have. BUt this happens all the time in other areas and we trust our players not to be meta until they prove unworthy of that trust.

Off the top of my head I would suggest that, upon dying you get the usual death scroll: you died. This is followed by a simple bright read and very obvious message stating that you are dead the light at the end of the tunnel beckons but that you have yet to cross the threshold. When you become dead dead you get a message about crossing the threshold. and start getting the usual messaging.

By Grey0 at Oct 28, 2020 10:26 AM
Let's use this thread to inform then.

Help death already informs about the possibility of resus.

Speaking as one player, I've been resus'd more times than I've had to "go clone."

If you have an accident with witnesses, chances are really good you'll be resus'd.

Even if you get flatlined by an attacker, think about the situation. Sure, maybe they're just going to necksnap you and call it good, but, I've seen attackers flatline someone and subsequently either allow the victim to re resus'd or else actually resus'ing them theirself, many times.

Remember, as a victim, the other player probably wants RP. Stick around to give it to them.

This isn't just idle talk - look around to see how frequently players talk about being disappointed that someone on the losing end of a conflict just gives up instead of sportingly hanging on long enough for the victor to give them more RP - and not worse abusive RP either, but, second-chances, opportunities for manipulation, opportunities to create trouble for the winner of this round, etc etc etc.

Fine, I get that players don't want their characters to be killed, but it's Sindome, it's going to happen. Anticipate that it will, and be prepared to fight your way out of it. Whether that's a resus, a cold revenge, or a new opportunity to let the victor change the situation.

By beandip at Oct 28, 2020 10:29 AM
I agree with Reefer that an OOC hint the first time might be helpful.

Unless you've been through it before, a lot of the feedback during death can be taken as 'okay now I am dead, dead'.

I know in my case the first time I was revived (something like 30 seconds from vatting) I was AFK writing new nakeds and not even slightly expecting to be RPing again suddenly.

By 0x1mm at Oct 28, 2020 10:57 AM
I'm behind this idea becase...

1 Not everyone knows about corpse clone,

2 a short bright red reminder wouldn't harm

3 cooling down is good to prevent meltdown

Death isn't traumatic to me now, but it would've been nice to know i could've carried on that 1 time

By jblack at Oct 28, 2020 11:14 AM
If the "Hey, you're unconscious" message was something like "Hey, you're unconscious. Wait a few minutes to find out your fate" and you get a message like "The burdensome ache of this world fills your senses once again" when you awaken, I think that might help to change death from confusing to nail-biting.
By alittlelonger at Oct 28, 2020 12:15 PM
@Villa New player here. It was just... I waited on the death screen for half an hour, checking constantly, and eventually just gave up. Wasn't sure how corpse cloning works, if there's a time limit, or if anyone would even bother, but waited just in case. The first five minutes, I just stared at the screen awash in emotion. Then I took a break and just checked up on it every so often. Since I DC a lot some days, does that mean I might get disabled from corpse clone if my connection drops? or do you mean from the standpoint of realizing you've been cloned?
By CryptPhoenix at Oct 28, 2020 12:21 PM
Being logged-out doesn't prevent you from being corpse-cloned OR resuscitated by the nipple clamps, Crypt.

Additionally, people seem to be mixing up corpse cloning and resuscitation.

By beandip at Oct 28, 2020 12:24 PM
I think a little notification that you -might- be saved could do wonders. I've seen a lot of people "permed" who were in the process of getting brought back who never corpse-cloned or otherwise, possibly because of this.
By HolyChrome at Oct 28, 2020 12:31 PM
So... I believe there's already an indicator in place that you're being revived. It's been a long time, but I recall being basically on the brink of mandatory vat and then the death messages started to "rewind". And then I was resuscitated .
By Quotient at Oct 28, 2020 1:16 PM
Whenever my character has been resuscitated, the messaging for that generally starts with the medic or whoever looking the char over and healing their wounds. That's how I know. Other than that, I think the nail-biting suspense of not knowing whether or not you'll be resussed is one of the most exciting parts of dying, sitting there hoping your chums or witnesses came to your aid or not.

Generally people look at help death when they die for the first time, at least I did, so maybe some clearer (and even perhaps more colorful) messaging about this issue could help. However, help death already touches on this in a good amt of detail.

By svetlana at Oct 28, 2020 1:20 PM
So... I believe there's already an indicator in place that you're being revived.

There's no revival messaging, the only sign you're no longer dead is ambient feedback. When a character regains consciousness they automatically 'look' so I think it would make sense when they're resuscitated as well.

You can also be corpse cloned after getting to the final stage of cloning out, after being given feedback you're in an OOC space now, which is extremely confusing the first time it happens.

help death definitely implies a player has time to kill to do stuff OOC after the red scroll and they often won't so I don't think a hint or two for first-timers would be too tension breaking.

By 0x1mm at Oct 28, 2020 1:43 PM
I'm not on board with communicating they aren't dead dead yet, but we can add a reference to 'help death' and let them decide for themselves if its worth sticking around or not.
By Johnny at Oct 29, 2020 5:31 PM
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