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Break free from grapple Warez
Take your filthy paws off me you damn dirty ape!

XHELP Fengshui [responding to you]: That's an excellent idea for a cyberware, please post it on the BGBB in ideas.

I know grapple got reworked to be more balanced not long ago, but it still is very powerful and if they manage to get the lock on you, chances are you won't be able to get away most likely.

I can think of only one way, to circumvent the lock, once you've tried and failed to break free but I never tested it.

This would be a paid counter, to get a chance to escape the lock and not be re-grappled for a short period of time.

So the basic idea is to make a new self defense cyberware piece that helps you break free. The idea is not to become impervious to grapple forever, but to boost your chances to break free and get away from the fight.

My ideas were: 1. Spikes pop out from your chest. Damages the assailant and forces him to let you go, can't be grappled for a few rounds or attacker can grapple you. Then it gets discharged, gets a cool down. Sort of like a Flashboost?

2. Electrocutes the assailant and stuns them for a few rounds. Then it gets discharged, gets a cool down.

3. Get covered in an greasy substance that makes it easier to squeeze free, more dex focus than str focus. Discharge, cool down, all that jazz.

Anyway, that's the basic premise. Feel free to critic and suggest alternatives.

Why not just buy a jar of petroleum jelly and slather yourself in it. Boom! You're hard to grapple.
I vote for number 2. This seems solid. It should have limited usage like a flashboost but maybe also damages and/or stuns opponent. It should also be expensive and the would-be victim should have a chance to resist.
If we went for option 2. I'd say it would need to electrocute both of you, and make the grappler release, and both people go prone for 1 round.

Risk versus reward.

I dig it. I really like the potential of exploiting an enemies tactics against them with this cyberware and also compensating for notable weakness but balance is key. This would be incredibly powerful.
I vote for the third option, the first one should logically damage the enemy which I think is too overpowered and same for the second option. But if they went for the second option, I agree with Cerberus about the implementation.
my thought: make Nailz usable while grappled. A slight modification of what is ingame already, can pretty much at least grab a part of your enemy while grappled, even if with just one hand. activate nailz boom, sinks into them forces a release.
Or just give your character an ability to fight without a cyberware while grappled which is already possible in real life. Bite, kick backward, jerk your head back against the guy's face, use your fingers to scratch at the veins, etc.

Not sure why we can't do that already.

To be honest, as someone who has done a fair share of Judo, DJJ (German Ju-Justsu) and BJJ (Brazilian Jiu-Jitso), the grapple system here at Sindome used to make me cry. The rebalance has helped a lot and now I just wince.

Though overly simplistic nature of the grappling system here really saddens me, I totally get that implementing true grappling would be a huge venture - probably not really worth the man hours At this point my only complaint is that, once you are grappled, it feels like it becomes primarily but a battle of strength.

I know from personal experience that skill and agility plays a huge roll in grappling (as can strength). In fact most of my instructors have constantly cautioned against using brute force instead always pushing you to focus on speed and technique.

I have frequently faced off with people who are weaker than I am and have been repeatedly trounced because they were more skilled than I. And I'm not saying that they simply avoided my pins, chokes and joint locks (though they frequently could have). Hell, half the time they would let me pin or choke them then slip out using their knowledge and experience. This is a common training technique.

I remember the first time I managed to get my DJJ (German Ju-Jutsu) instructor in a rear naked choke when we were doing tournament style matches (aka trying to win). Had it locked in tight, heels hoked and everything. Pretty much like this:

Next thing I know, he somehow manages to twist a little and puts me in an ankle lock using his legs, hard. Suffice it to say, I did not keep that hold long. And I was stronger than him by a good measure at the time.

So, given the choice, I would far rather see the checks adjusted in a way that allows a an experienced fighter/dodger to more effectively apply their stats (even stats other than strength) in their resist attempts once grappled. I'm not against this kind of cyberware, as it is really damn cool and totally CP, but I'd hate to see it left at that.

Lastly, as a disclaimer, I do not claim to know the nuances of the grapple code. It very well might be that the code already does what I mention here but it only appears otherwise to me given my specific experiences in the game. If that is the case, I apologize for the long rant :-P

From a RL perspective, I totally agree with you Grey0 but it just isn't viable to have something that insanely nuanced...I will say that the code improvements with grapple are much much much better now than they used to be and does reflect the skills/stats you reference, I believe.
Yes, grappling is now a 3 part process. Aware enough to notice an incoming grapple, fast enough to avoid it, and strong enough to resist it. That's 3 checks.

So you have three ways you can undo a grapple, someone has to effectively be better than you at rolling three stats, and I believe there's even a hand to hand check in the last portion as well.

Anyway, I am not too worried about the state of grapple, personally. I just like the idea of a tool to stop someone from strangling me, or slowing it down or preventing it when certain types of armor or cybernetics might protect against it.

Naaaaailz. Make the grapple pay for holding onto you
If I make Nailz work against someone in grapple, I need to make any weapon held in the hand work against a grappler.

You guys want solutions against grapple, but you don't seem to acknowledging that grapple is the direct result of skill and stat investment and is a viable method in combat. We cannot completely invalidate it, and there are 4 ways to improve your characters without chyen being involved to avoid grapple, two ways to invest to make sure you can break it.

Could there possibly be a cyberware method that strengthens the throat or similar that acts as a specific armor against strangling instead? Or an armor that does the same? Wouldn't stop grappling, but would help stop the killing part.
Yes. I was very glad to hear about the 3-step grapple. It is awesome. And I'm glad to hear that escaping a grapple is not a simple matter of who's stronger. Thanks!
I am just saying, nails work like claws right? So if some has you grapple and is choking you, cant you get your hand up to an arm or their side and at least get a rake or jab in? Could be a bonus to resist or something. Doesnt have to work fully like combat, but from my own experiences in fighting, when grappled, there is quite a lot you can do to resist even if they have you arm-barred. Kicks, headbutts, biting. If you are getting choked out, the grappler has to completely focus on choking you out, which leaves him wide open. Last time someone put me in a chokehold I took out two of their teeth with my head. I took damage too, but was able to hurt him still.
This may be an unpopular hot take and I 100% get where these ideas are coming from but I guess I'd rather see our extremely rare coder resource time spent fleshing out areas that don't even have baseline functionality (or only superficial functionality) in place before going nineteen layers deep on existing systems.
I think the struggling against a grappler, clawing, jabbing, biting, headbutting, is already taken accounted for. I for one support the idea of a cybernetic 'solution', although the term measure is probably more suitable.

If I may make a suggestion (the previous ideas all sounded interesting, I just thought I might as well throw in my thought as well), I had the idea of something like a piston within the cyber-limb that quickly thrusts out upon activation to loosen the grip of an assailant and give you a chance to slip out. Limit it to one or two charges before it has to be recharged/repaired/repurchased. The only thing I can't think of some kind negative to balance it out. Maybe a short time (five to ten minutes) after use the user will start to suffer from stamina loss as the pistons move back to their original positions, giving you a small window to escape and find safety before you get hit with the penalty.

Anyways, just a thought.

As stated, grappling works as intended and is not OP. If you find it OP it's because you have shit stats in comparison to the person grappling you or never invested skill in hand to hand.

If we're taking away the one thing that gives Hand to Hand users a distinct playstyle then we should make it easier to disarm all firearm users etc. See how that works? You need to increase the stats/skills Cerberus outlined to resist the grapple whether naturally with time or with chy. Want cyber to resist grapples? Get a skillsoft and the relevant skillsoft.

Grappling today > Grappling before todays grapple system. Be happy it is what it is now :D
Also, if you really want to get into the grapple thing, I think it is all subjective to your interpretation since the grapple is not specific as to how you are holding them. Unless there's a specific "Billy is bear hugging you" or "John is holding you by the balls" It's kinda hard to react to it, probably way easier and less complicated to allow the code to do it's job as it is because as it is really is better then as it was. This would also take into account would different MA and hand to hand styles have specific grapples that would be easier to get out of if you were skilled in another MA style? Big rabbit hole that can be gone down. The cyberware idea is cool though.
Stats and skills are not the only thing involved in evading/landing a grapple, either.
The only way to evade/landing a grapple is stats and skills, but alright.

Also, the messaging implies it's a head lock, hence the strangling.

Stats and skills and various situational factors influence evading/landing a grapple. Holding a grapple or breaking out of one is just stats and skills, though.
Yes, sure. One thing in addition to stats and skills which boils down to a state, which may as well be the same thing.

Glad we had this talk.