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More Stats/Skills info
my 2 chyen

     Okay, I have been reading up on the posts and I want to bring something up that has been bothering me.  
     As I understand it the policy for SD is to limit the information available about your Stats and skills.  You are not give point values or chances of success. You are not told how many UE it will take to reach your next level.  The most you are given are vague descriptions such as Slow, Feeble and Average for Stats and Terrible, Competent and even Aspiring for skills.  You are not even told what the order is from lowest to highest in each.
    And I even think I understand the reasoning behind it.  First and formost SD is about Roleplaying.  Talking to people, making contacts, taking risks and getting payoffs.  Also as people IRL we know the general aspects of our ablilities, ( I am smart and friendly, but I am a bit of a klutz an I am very unlucky, ect.) not specifics.  And finally I think the GMs wish to avoid Stat/Skill whores (aka Munchkins) and discussing character Abilities ooc.
   So here are my points.
  1) Stats and skills are tools for RP.  They set limits on what a character can do within the story and allow them to effect the environment and others.  Otherwise we would need only speaking and posing to rp, no need to code stuff at all.    
   2) Limits are good. Blind limits are increadibly frustrating.  Imagine a job where you supervisor stood right behind you and everytime you tried to do something, they would say "nope you can't do that." or "okay, you can do that."  Sure, eventually you would learn what he/she would allow, but how long would you really want to keep that job?  Could this be why their are fewer and fewer people logging in?
   3) Because there is limited information on skills and stats, most newbies that are interested in keeping there characters alive will keep them safe in a cube or coffin trying to get their stats/skills up to a level where they think they will survive. (cubing anyone?)
  4) It seems that SD puts more emphisis on standing in the community (Rep) than on how powerfull a character really is.  But most newbies won't see it that way. They will think that if a person has a Bad ass rep, they must also have Bad Ass Stats/Skills.  Also if there are no other people on to RP with, reputation impresses nobody.
  5) Character growth.  I would love to see how my chacter is growing from the wet behind the ears immigrant to a mover and shaker.  Not in rep terms but realisticly in what I am actually able to do.

   okay before I get flamed for not appriciating all the work that has been done or for not suggesting something different, let me speak.   I really like this game, warts and all, and I want to continue to play it.  I have GMed in the past so I know how much work that is and I have coded enough to realize that Johnny, Kevlar et al. are way out of my league.  I only have one real outlet for RP and Sindome is it.
    As for my suggestions, only two for this subject.
1) let us know what the level definitions are for stats and skills. Or at least let us know the order from lowest to highest.  (I always thought incompotent was worse that poor.)
2) redo character generation to let the newbies know what stats effect what skills.  And for pete's sake note which skills are fully supported within the game.  When somebody drops 40 points in a skill at chargen and then finds out it is useless, they are probably going to leave and are not going to come back.

(Edited by Mensaboy at 1:38 pm on Mar. 2, 2006)

I agree completly, and I think I posted something very similar when I was new.  I've been around a awhile now and I don't have the problems you have, since I know what the stat levels are for the most part.  

Most of the stat levels are just synonyms (or whatever) for the same word!  It can be very confusing.  Here is what I propose, I have seen it work well on other MOO's/MUD's, and isn't very hard to implement.

Add an option to color code your stats.  If you turned it on,  all stats below say.. 30 points would appear in dark red.  from 30 to say 60, would appear in green, from 60-90 would appear in blue, and 90-120 would appear in cyan.  Then let everyone know WHAT each color means.  RED == pretty damn bad.. green == average, blue == good, cyan == uber.

This would give people a VERY general idea of where there character is without revealing all that much.

I really don't care too much about stats. I'll shoot a bitch regardless ;-)

knowing where you are on the scale could be nice, but all you need really is common sense. If you have poor in rifle, you're not likely going to pick someone off at 300 yards.

It's not so much skills, I think the skill names are pretty good at telling you where you are.  But the stats.. they are interchangeable for alot of levels..

It can be very hard if you want to concentrate on roleplaying your character to your stats.  A general idea of where you are in comparison to the maximum and minimum could go a long way to helping out newer characters.

I generally decide how good my skills and stats are based on how much UE it costs to raise them but honestly, they're meaningless diversions. REP is everything, and if you can outsmart your opponent. You can rule there life.

Its not about how many ways you can kill a man, its about how many ways your ace kool can. There have been plenty of character who didn't no a damn thing about firing a gun but knew how to walk the walk. My favorite stat has always been charisma. People don't know how high you have it, sure, but you do. Average Joe might sweat his bollocks off with a gun to his head, Alluring Jack might just flash a smile and whisper something into his would-be assailants ear and send the boyo a runnin'.

I'm a big fan of Nem's system though, plus the colors amuse me in my docile state.

Nemisis I think your getting too concerned about your stats...but that may be because you have such a high level character and its getting hard to see where you stand relative to other high level characters.

When you only have a vague idea of where you stand it makes things a gamble, which is obviously impossible to really predict the outcome.

When you enter combat you are taking a big risk. It's hard to guess where your opponent stands in relation to you. Also, a lot of shit seems not to be just stat/skill based. Like if you attack someone with a knife and they are with fists and they can't disarm you, even if they are stronger you will cut that bastard good and he will probably bleed to death.

That's what's cool about the way this thing works, it's not all about HAHA I GOT 3 UE EVERY DAY FOR FIVE MONTHS STRAIGHT... I'M LEVEL THREE CYAN!  No, there's an element of strategy.

I don't think color coding it makes a difference.. generally you can guess how good you are at something by how much you've been playing and how much UE you've spent. And otherwise even if you think your like God, some punk nobody ever heard of might knock you down. That's what makes this fun!

Exactly.  People that have been playing know where they stand.  I don't need a color coded system to tell me where I stand in my stats.   I wasn't talking about a system that would benefit me, I was talking about something that would benefit newer characters who don't have the FAINTEST idea where they are.  

Combat is a gamble because you don't know where your opponent stands.. but that doesn't mean YOU shouldn't know where YOU stand.  I mean.. If i'm in a fight in real life, I know what I can and can't do..  Newbies don't have any idea about that because they have nothing to use as a refrence.

    Okay, What about the 11 Substats.  Do they really come into play or are they left over from the original LambdaMOO and are redundant.(I.E. unsupported.)

And what the fuck is outlook anyway?  It looks like a substat of perception but it is described as a personality trait that should be a player choice. Congratulations Player X, your Outlook is "piss poor" as apposed to "shitty".  Could Fubar be a good discriptor of a characters outlook?

I don't know.