Economy.
If I got this right from reading the other posts

I don't want you to think I'm focusing on code simply to focus on code either. I'm not, but the thing that changes a MOO/Mud from a tabletop game is we have the benefit of code to help with some of the lifting.

I mean otherwise why aren't we all just rolling dice for everything and gathered in a chat room?

No, you haven't. You've barely broken the surface tension. You have no idea how deep the waters your in swimming are, yet you're saying there's not enough water. You hit a rock, and you've decided the rock is the bottom. But it's not. It's just one obstacle that you have to work around.

I have used every tool available to me

No you have not, you've only used the ones you've discovered so far, which are incredibly limited. There's so many more tools available to you that you have not discovered.

But I still see issues ... "You didn't try enough" is bullshit man

No, you see your struggle. Everyone has their own, and everyone does one of three things: float, sink, or rise above. Your argument predicates on the assumption that you cannot rise above, and that more effort won't yield better results. That's just soooo much bullshit.

Not quite sure what you think I'm NOT doing.

The things that work, for one. For another, the things that have been suggested to you over and over. Namely RP. I think you're NOT looking for the money where the money is.

I'm guessing that in the real world, interacting with people in the same way results in them giving you money, and your frustrated by the fact that this doesn't happen the same way in the game?

What more RP you want?

Me personally? Nothing. I'm good. You? Sounds like you want the RP that results in cash flow, not the RP you've been doing.

And if you say RP doesn't equate to money, trust me, I try to spin EVERYTHING into money.

Ah! I think we may have encountered the real problem. When I go to RP with someone, and I want to make money, I know exactly how to do that. Before I go anywhere near the person, before I say the first word to them, I know exactly how I want this conversation to go, and exactly how much money I'm going to walk away from it with.

But it sounds like you're lacking the skills to convince people to part with their cash. This isn't a shortcoming of the game itself. The problem you're describing how has absolutely ZERO to do with coded jobs, and everything to do with your social skills and how effectively you interact with other people.

Well ok, lets assume that I'm not kissing enough ass or whatever it you're recommending I do to loosen the purse strings.

I have never played a lackey type character before in my life and never will.

I guess I'm doomed to fail.

Yes.

Well ok, lets assume that I'm not kissing enough ass or whatever it you're recommending I do to loosen the purse strings.

Thank you for making my point for me about not knowing how to talk to people. Well done.

I have never played a lackey type character before in my life and never will.

Ego much?

I guess I'm doomed to fail.

Most people are. To quote Fight Club: "You are not special. You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else. We're all part of the same compost heap. We're all singing, all dancing crap of the world."

And now you've demonstrated the truth of that statement. And until you decide to become unique and special, that's never going to change. You are doomed to fail like everyone else who has failed before you, and everyone who will come after, and not try hard enough to be better than everyone else around them.

What you read on the BGBB is people's opinions on topics. The subjective truth. The objective truth is known only by admin.

I apologize for not addressing much of the actual content of this post, but there doesn't seem to be anything here that hasn't been addressed in numerous other posts. This topic would have been better as an addition to one of our other posts.

See:

http://www.sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/new-game-features/ganger-item-payment-reduction-207/

http://www.sindome.org/bgbb/game-discussion/new-game-features/ganger-item-payment-reduction-207/

Pariah, I do not know your background OOCly. What I do know is that Sindome is a massive game, run by volunteers, with a supportive community, some of which have been around for months, some years, some decades. There is a level of understanding and experience that comes with playing the game and seeing things from multiple angles. I would implore you to take a step back, temper your feedback, and spend more time experiencing the game and gaining a better understanding of it.

The fact that you have arrived, played a week, and want a bunch of things to change because you don't like them, comes off as selfish and self serving. Maybe that is not your intention, but I don't know you. I don't know your intentions. I haven't spent any time RPing with you, and neither has, to much extent, anyone else here.

If it's not become clear as of yet, a lot of your posts are inciting negative feedback. That, I expect, is because you have been generally negative with everything you've posted. That doesn't make people more happy or more inclined to listen to your feedback. We appreciate contribution to the community, and at many times, that indeed involves providing construction feedback. However, that feedback needs to come from experience and understanding of the game, not knee jerk reactions to things that you've experience only once or twice, or that are fused with you lack of finding the RP you are looking for or the money your character wants to have.

It seems like there is a decent amount of bleed from your character tainting what you are posting on the BGBB-- that is my take on it, anyway.

To summarize:

Please be constructive in your feedback.

Please offer feedback from a place of understanding, not a knee jerk reaction.

Please take the time to play and learn the game before asking us to change it.

Please find already existing BGBB posts to post under whenever possible.

Please post in the correct area, 'anything really' is not the best place for this topic.

Please start small, build trust with the members of the community, before jumping into the deep end with complaints, critiques, etc.

Thanks!

-- S

You'll find in Sindome, veteran players can recognize an agenda from a mile away. And sometimes those sorts of attitudes get generally avoided by the playerbase. If you think you're doing what everyone else is doing and it's not working, you might want to look at yourself rather than make sweeping gestures about the system as a whole.

But even that's an entirely myopic view of what success looks like in the game.

So you typed 'work' enough times, slept in a cube, bought nothing, and saved up for your katana. The day arrives. You go get it, and bring it down. Now what? You can't show it off in public, because the gangers will jump you for it. You can't use it to go kill the big bad who's been menacing you, because you don't have the skills/stats.

And... here's where the real realization comes in: Assuming you and the big bad are playing the same hate game, you will NEVER have the skills/stats to best them. Ever. You will never ever get ahead that way. He will always have the UE advantage on you.

So you may as well give up on that game, and play a different one. The big bad has friends, but he has enemies too. So the best place to spend your money might not be on your own katana, it might be hiring someone else's... and -this- is the game. Not grinding a job, not saving money, not buying stuff, but RPing.

Quit worrying about money. Go RP. You'll get a lot further.

I mentioned before to you multiple times that payroll jobs are simply a means to an immediate end, covering necessities and if you're lucky and work hard, a bit extra. If you want to make more, you have to hustle.

This is a cyberpunk game, man. It's about the haves versus the have-nots. Your character is a have-not. If you want a different game experience, find a different game. Continuing to complain about lacking IC things, is going to result in you being removed from the community. Plain and simple.

-- S

I realized the problem in saying this.

It's like me saying to you, "You have to gazorpazorp." I'm an expert gazorpazorper. I grew up in a lower middle class family, and I've had to gazorpazorp all my life to get ahead. I know exactly how to gazorpazorp.

But you've never had to. And I keep on saying to you, "Well, go talk to people!" and you're like "I do talk to people!" and I go, "But you're not gazorpazorping" and you're like WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK DO YOU MEAN?

And I keep on saying, "But I have done what you said" and you keep going, "No you haven't. You need to gazorpazorp." and everyone's like, Yeah! Just gazorpazorp and I'm I'm going I've tried gazorpazorping, but it's NOT WORKING!!!!

The problem here is I still have no idea what it means to gazorpazorp. I'm following the instructions as best I understand them, but because I've never actually seen a real gazorpazorp in action I'm emulating what I think are the right steps, but I'm still getting no results.

So... realizing this, I don't think it's useful to say to someone who has no idea what it means to actually hustle, 'you just have to hustle'. They clearly don't understand what's required, and all their attempts at following instructions have not resulted in success. It's easy to blame the person for not hustling, but what of the instructor who didn't provide instructions they can understand?

So, on behalf of Pariah, what does it mean to actually hustle? Can someone give a more clear definition of what's being said that will highlight the contrast between what's expected and what's been tried so far?

Well, fortunately, there's a massive wealth of information available on this. Sindome is, for all intents and purposes, a reality simulator. There's nothing unique to Sindome about how to make money in a society. If it's applicable as a business model in the real world, and it can be effectively modeled in Sindome, then it can work.

The instructions your looking for will not be found here, they will be found in examples all around you. Basic economics. Money can be exchanges for goods and services. Supply and demand. Cost vs expense. Selling on the margin. You won't find those manuals here, because this isn't a training workshop. You're expected to learn these skills elsewhere, and bring them here, or learn them from the people here.

Just like in real life.

I'm not here to jump on you for your assumptions. I'm just here to pour my n=1 experience in.

I'm not what I'd call a veteran player. My character is almost two years old. Yes, years. In that span of time my character has gone from bottom to top and back down again to some mid level of existence. I used to be frustrated that saving for x would me y amount of days, slaving over a hot keyboard. But, I stopped worrying about that. I focused solely on my character and my character's relations, passions, personality. A lot of people play a character with no purpose. Humans have purpose. Humans have goals and dreams and feelings and dislikes and likes, hobbies, passions, failings. Why wouldn't a character? I also see a lot of people stuck in a rut when they play their character statically. Humans are dynamic. If it means I keep the roof over my head and food in my fridge (and the power on) fuck yeah I'm going to deliver that pizza despite my fancy degree in not delivering pizzas. Why wouldn't characters be dynamic too?

As a slightly more experienced player than the average newbie, I admit that it's harder to get involved with my character when someone is new. It's hard to get involved with a lot of the more established characters when someone is new. Simply because, there's already a world going that you need to work into with time. We don't go out of our way to alienate newbies, many of us try to incorporate newer players into something even if it leads nowhere. But, it's like walking into a new city and expecting to deal for the main drug kingpin on day two. It's just not going to happen. I also see a level of discomfort when people are basically begging for attention. Just...be normal, chill, develop that dynamic character. Stop thinking of things you want or need for your character beyond a roof and clothes and develop the character into something people want and need instead through building relationships, doing the shit work, experiencing the world for more than five minutes. If you don't want to put time into the game, no one wants to put time into your character either.