IC cliquing overkill, and protection.
I'm curious if what I think is genuine.

Though on another matter, it's perfectly fine to have IC cliques and friends. The best asset you can have, way better than rifle or armor.

Suppose you want to take down Ms. A.

Well, Ms. A is good friends of B and C, and is protected by D.

C has E and F as allies.

D has immy recruits G, H, I, J, and K.

H, B and J hate C though.

G and E aren't fans of A.

L is a solo willing to mess with any of them except H and F

etc.

Everyone has allies and enemies. If you want to take someone down, chart a path that cuts to them. Gain allies and worm your way in. Expect roadblocks and people doing your work for you.

Nobody is truly untouchable.

Will you get in trouble if you are not part of something bigger? Absolutely. But what is the solution for that? Join a gang. Or get friends. Or both.

I mean when one character comes out of the bushes to save every character ever. I believe the IC term is white knighting. I don't think I've ever really seen this *not* happen to me, actually.

On varying levels.

White knights can be lame as fuck, but sometimes there are investments being protected by the investor.

You'll be found. And whiteknight age is ABSOLUTELY what I'm referring to. Not a mob boss protecting a new business partner. This is in reference to random groups of barhopping immies that literally are like "Nah, let me go, or my people are gonna find you, and you'll regret it."

And hours later you get jumped by three whiteknights because they're kinda drinking buddies, and fucking with them, is, like, not cool, man.

But maybe this is less common than I think.

But as a new player it's fucking crippling. It seems like those who barhop and do nothing succeed and when you try to get the mix life type of RP you get fucked incredibly fast by random "Cool Guy: budget edition." Characters.

I'll just try harder.

But honestly Marleen. Please do stop with this. I honestly would consider your opinions to have some validity -until- posts like those and some of the previous.

I think it makes zero sense that people see someone in immy clothes or someone they haven't seen around a lot and just immediately assume 'oh this guy is weak/connection-less, so i can fuck with him'. That is massively OOC and has zero place in the game. Immigrants can be anyone, with connections in and out of Withmore, with more experience than a lot of people in the Dome (even if it isn't reflected in their skills, which is why few people attempt characters like that).

This wouldn't bug me much but it is very widespread. Almost everyone I've seen does it. Yes, immies need to learn, and yes, a lot of immies are dumb as bricks, and many of them are fresh-faced bums who don't know the Mix from Blue. But this automatic OOC assumption and even desire for newbies to be completely defenseless is just predatory and not really doing anything towards creating good stories beyond just repeating the same old 'haha this immy needs taught a lesson' shtick that usually is just a mugging or beatdown, occasionally a trip to the vat.

Find out about the immy. RP with them and others. Then decide on a path befitting the characters involved. Are you really gonna stick up the former yakuza boss just because you know that he mechanically can't stop you? Not saying you can't or shouldn't, but don't just completely ignore their character because they're mechanically weak.

--

I can't really comment on IC cliques much, but I would be very surprised if there weren't many. In fact, it ties in with my previous rant. How do these defenceless immies stop being defenceless? By making friends. There's nothing wrong with this. Make friends of your own. Plan better. Solos aren't exactly growing on trees because of that very reason. It's not easy because the entire city runs on connections and data.

If people ganging up on you bothered you, you would've turned around right at the gates when you saw the first ganger.

Your observation is 100% spot on.

As to any discussion beyond that, I think we start getting into IC / OOC crossover and discussions about strategy.

You are not imagining it. What you are observing is there. The WHY it is there is something to FOIC.

I simply stated that the "cliquing behaviors" happen at all levels of play and crossing all levels of play in the game.

And then explained some of the many many many ways you can be fucked over without help.

It's not a defeatest attitude, it's the reality of the game. Sure you can do a LOT solo, but the moment you add another character into your clave, for lack of a better word, you multiply the amount you can do immensely.

My perception of your pose aligns with what Crooknose said.

To paraphrase, the way your pose came off was basically, "Seir, what you saw happens. If you don't like it, don't play here."

Well, you propagated a defeatist attitude here...

You will be unable to fight back, you will at times not be permitted to have a vision or view for your character beyond an apartment wall and living till tomorrow.

You cannot stop this.

If you want to play the lone badass... In a realistic world like Sindome's, you can't, functionally do that, you'll be dog piled.

And you insinuated that a reasonable response was quitting here...

This literally happens at every level of the game, and if it's a deal breaker for you. You should probably leave, and not just now, but like now now.

Because it happens literally everwhere and if you don't like it... You are going to not like EVERY level of gameplay, because on EVERY level, you will do better with allies, be outplayed by those with allies, and so on.

So in essence, if that is a DEAL BREAKER, for them. They should leave, because they would be wasting time they could spend in other more solo friendly games.

To sum it up, if collaboration being something a solo player cannot catch up too, makes you feel disdain for the system, is a deal breaker, it is my firm belief that you shouldn't play a game like this

Now to answer your own question: And you want me to sugar coat that to someone who is frustrated by the fact that people are collaborating in an RP based game?

Yes, that's actually what I want <3

Seir's posting on here because they're upset that they can't get anything going and it feels like everyone is white knighting them when they do, which, while part of the game, is obviously tough for them, hence the post.

Plenty of what you said echoes what others including me have said, that cliques and groups are a natural part of the game and it's better to adapt than to be upset about it. But there's a way to engage with a bit of empathy for the other person's position, and there's a way to tell them they should play another game and that they have no agency to help themselves, which is completely untrue.

When you were upset that you got killed without some flavor RP to go with it, people told you, "Unfortunately, that's the way the game is a lot of the time. People could do better and maybe we should try to do better but it's not always possible to engage in that way."

They didn't tell you, "People will fuck you over cause they're dickheads and every level of the game is like that, and if you truly can't dig it then I firmly believe you should find another game."

See the difference? The former shows some understanding and sympathy for the position we're all in as players. When someone's obviously upset, trying to point them the right way without injecting your opinion on how they could best use their own gaming time seems preferable to me. You could have said everything you said without the added air of "the door's that way."

A lot of parroting happens on the forums. There's like a party line that gets picked up on and people are told, "this is the way things are." People should be free to explore their own playstyles and techniques, see what works, and adapt what doesn't until it does work. Giving each other a modicum of support helps that process.

Even characters you see talking to many other characters can be lone wolves behind it all. They might maintain generally good to neutral relations with most but refuse to throw their eggs into any particular groups basket resulting in them giving or getting little to no support outside of what they can pay for with hard flash.

I've even played this style before myself. Twice. Both somewhat successfully. But it was a long road with bumps. It's not something I can imagine happening unless you really work things just right. But it is 100% possible to not belong to a clique and do cool stuff.

But you can't just barrel in and openly piss a bunch of people off and expect them not to call on allies just because you chose to be a lone wolf. You have to deal with the fact that chums and white knights WILL be a factor that you have to account for. Never expect others to play by your rules and do your best to never play by theirs!